Full Episode Transcript

Season 2 | Episode 1: The Greatest Ode to Her Sacrifice (with Janice Omadeke)

Transcribed by: Eryn Strong, Hannah Rosentreter, Gina Marioni, Sonia Montejano, Elizabeth Jarvie and Kisa Nishimoto

Running Time: 1:22:20

Janice Omadeke: Yeah, I think when people think of grief, you're either supposed to be in bed all day, every day, or you're supposed to just not feel it and be numb. And for me, I think I was those two, and everything in between.

[Theme Music Begins]

Jodi-Ann Burey, as host: Welcome to the second season of Black Cancer. I'm your host and creator of the Black Cancer podcast, Jodi-Ann. Before we get started, I just want to thank you so much for being here. Seriously. This podcast - it's about you. It's about giving yourself the space to maybe see yourself and your own experiences in new ways. It's about finding new language to support the people you love. It's about creating new spaces of vulnerability for us as Black and Brown people to be ourselves. Imagine. So thank you for taking the time to be you.

Our guest on today's show is Janice Omadeke, the Founder and CEO of The Mentor Method, who found herself celebrating her business and managing the grief of her mother's passing to pancreatic cancer at the same time. In this episode, we talk about our duty as the children of immigrants to actualize more than what our parents dreamed of for our lives; how we at times must split ourselves to be strong - and, as arduous and as necessary as a process of grief is - still acknowledging that grief looks, feels and sounds differently to all of us. We also talk about what it means to be a Black woman in pain. Here is my conversation with Janice. 

[Music Fades] 

Jodi-Ann Burey: I think it's hard to be like, "Here's all this logistical stuff. Okay, tell me about your mom." You know? *chuckles*

Janice Omadeke: *chuckles* It would not be the first time though. [Jodi-Ann: I know. *chuckles*] You know how it is [Jodi-Ann: I know.] as a woman in business, it's like, “Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. But let's get back to your financials.” Like, okay, cool. Glad we were a human for two seconds. 

Jodi-Ann Burey: Well, that's - well, that's interesting. Like, how have you navigated having to tell people as you were going through, you know, your mom's sickness and the grief process. And then I always find that you can be facing the absolute worst part of your life, and then somebody at your job needs to know something, right? *chuckles* At some point. 

Janice Omadeke: Oh, 100%. 

Jodi-Ann Burey: And like, how do you even navigate that? 

 Janice Omadeke: Right? Well, hmm. I think the best way to describe that is the first time I had to do it, [Jodi-Ann: Mmm.] which was four days after my mother passed away. So we did at-home hospice. My mom, brother, sister, close relatives were there. And, you know, it was the perfect setting. It wasn't too - I mean - nothing is ever perfect in that moment. Right? [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] But, I remember that, right before her passing, she's facing the window at home. You know, we were all there just the immediate family, right - so mom, dad, brother, sister, myself - and you know, it happened. 

This was also at the time, I was going back and forth between DC - where I'm from - and Austin, because I was in the MassChallenge Accelerator. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] So, we made it to finals. And then after finals, you find out Oscars-style, you know, which of the 16 finalists has won money and how much. And so it was just me at the time - solopreneur lifestyle - and it was a big opportunity. And it was one of the things that I knew my mom wouldn't have wanted me to miss. So, she passed away Saturday, August 11, 2018. I planned the entire funeral - to be completely honest - planned the entire funeral, put that all together, flew back to Austin on the evening of the 14th. The 15th, had MassChallenge where I had, you know, a table and I needed to shake hands and collect business cards and do all of these things. Some people knew, right? Like the MassChallenge team was very supportive and just loving and making sure I was okay. And some of the people in the cohort that I was close to also knew. But there were also upwards of 200 people there. So the majority of the people that were coming up to the table and they're saying, you know, “Tell me about your business, what do you do? This is so interesting, etc.” You know, “Why weren't you at this event yesterday? We would have loved to see you.” They had no idea. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] 

 And so that was really, sort of, jumping into the deep end, because I still hadn't even processed, right? Like, to me, it was a win just to get there and not fall apart. Thankfully, you know, we won gold and got funding. And it was a wonderful experience, and I know that she was there and watching. But that balance of having to fight for your business, and then fight to just get out of bed...[Jodi-Ann: Mmm.] is something that I - you can't prepare for that. And every day, it's going to be different. 

I remember, even, you know, after MassChallenge, and coming back for the funeral, etc., you know, I would go to business meetings, be perfectly okay. And then the minute I would get into the parking garage and just fall apart for the entire 15-minute drive back to my apartment. Because every single time, you know, it was like winding up for a marathon or for a sprint - almost like an Olympic sprinter, right? [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] You have these, like, 30 seconds of just pure adrenaline, and then you're on the floor. And you're exhausted. 

So I wish I had a better answer, it’s just you have to do it. And I know, my mom wouldn't have wanted me to not continue growing my company and not continue, you know, with the things that she put into prayer and into motion through her support. So it's - I don't know how to explain it. 

I also think - and let me know if this is too long of an answer, [Jodi-Ann: No.] -  I also think, as Black women, [Jodi-Ann: Yesss.] we're trained very early on, to multitask, to acknowledge that we have feelings, but not necessarily address them and be quote, unquote “strong” - right? [Jodi-Ann: Yep.] We’re taught very early on to be these machines - almost - where feelings become foreign. We’re supposed to have them, but then we're also supposed to be the cornerstone of our families. And as you get older, there's that weird line between being both child and adult and friend with your parent, but then also caregiver, and business owner - all of these other things that were supposed to just magically do seamlessly because Black women are “strong”. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.]

So, I think that muscle memory from society and just general upbringing...it just triggered that by a factor of 10; where I wasn't fully, fully feeling up until recently. Up until 2020, quite honestly. 

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. I love the running analogy, because I remember when I used to watch marathons, and you know, race - especially marathons - on TV, and you see these people and they've been running for hours, right? [Janice: Mmhmm.] And then they cross, they cross the finish line, and I see them running, they look great. They cross the finish line, and then they collapse. And I've seen people, you know, you see these clips of people, crawling and the medic has to come and they can't walk, you know, you have two people holding them up. And I never understood that. *chuckles* Like, I just saw you running, how can you not walk right now?

Janice Omadeke:  *Laughs* Aren’t you an Olympian?

*Both laughing*

Jodi-Ann Burey: Aren’t you an Olympian? *chuckles* I don't get that. I really didn't understand until I ran my second marathon, which I did not train for - like an idiot - and as soon as I crossed the finish line, I went straight to the medic, got an ice pack for my hamstrings, because I had pulled something...I don't know how I even made it to my car. [Janice: Yes.] I was like, I get it now. Because you have this adrenaline, you have this goal. You're just kind of going, going, going - and as soon as I didn't have to do that anymore, then I was fully in the stress that was happening in my body. [Janice: YES!] And I think the analogy for how we are trained as Black women to be constantly in this marathon of strength and performance and other people's expectation for us. And any moment that we can have where we can just be - it fully shows up in our bodies as the crying in the car, as other breakdowns. In some cases as bad destructive behaviors. [Janice: 100%.] And then as soon as we have to perform, as soon as that race starts again, it’s as if that breakdown didn't happen.

Janice Omadeke: It's almost like amnesia. Like you didn't just do that. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] It’s fascinating how that happens. And I think that this sheltering in place, and COVID and, you know, what has been 2020, really forced me to stay still. I always explained my grief as - especially since, you know, it happened late 2018, so 2019 was my first full year without her, and still trying to grow a business and doing all the things that you have to do - it always felt like - sticking with the track analogy - but it always felt like there was this Usain Bolt-size amount of grief that I was always kind of dodging. [Jodi-Ann: Yep.] You know, think about being in a crowd of 1,000 people, or SXSW-type event, right, I was always bobbing and weaving and kind of getting away from that individual, which was my grief. And 2020 - just staying inside and you know, making sure that I was practicing safe protocols -  really gave me a lot of space and time to reflect. That Usain Bolt-sized grief was just like, Hey, I'm pulling up a seat on the couch and we're going to deal with this. At first, I really didn't like it. But I'm so grateful for the time that I've taken to just humble myself, feel everything, process what needs to get processed, and go through more of that through this stillness, versus alternatives that I've seen elsewhere.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Our relationship to cancer is really different. But the timing of our process is similarly aligned. My surgery was in 2018, and I also felt, you know, this change in 2020 around my orientation to what happened to me [Janice: Mmhmm.] and, you know, finding that space to kind of deal with it. Like, I can't even tell you what happened over the past two and a half years - like the time from my surgery until COVID started - it's like I can't even remember how that time even passed because I was so deep in this darkness. [Janice: Mmhmm.] And now just starting to cope with what happened to me and kind of who I want to be right now. That space to reflect and try to “clear out the amnesia”, as you say, [Janice: Yep.] I think, has been a really interesting element of what quarantine has looked like this year. [Janice: Yeah.] And so, I appreciate you so much for even having the space as you're reflecting, as you're processing, to talk publicly about your mother and her passing and your own journey in relationship to that. And so, I would love to dig in, get started with you just telling me about your mom. You know, what was she like? And what was your relationship to her like?

Janice Omadeke: She was incredible. The perfect combination of resilience, intelligence, grace, sense of humor, just an all around amazing person. I know everybody sort of idolizes their mother, but I genuinely believe that I have an incredible - had. That's still a hard transition. Quite honestly, I still go between “have” & “had” and I find myself...reminding myself to use past tense, but I had an incredible mother. Our relationship was - it was just a standard mother/daughter relationship, I feel. I was 100% her mini-her; we bonded, we were very similar, which, of course, during the adolescent years made for a very interesting time, right? Just like the typical [Jodi-Ann: No that’s right *laughs*], you know, fights when, like, you don't know that you're this little demon, right? And then you suddenly wake up and you're like, Oh, my God, huh? My mother's amazing. Oh, we're so similar. Yes, we should hang out. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah. *chuckles*] And magically it just happens. You know, this happened to me in undergrad. Where I was like, Oh, she's amazing. My mom came for parent weekend, my freshman year and we just had a great time. And that was the first time I felt like I really saw her as this incredible woman who loves her daughter and drove three hours to middle-of-nowhere, Virginia, to spend a weekend with her on a small university campus, because she loved her that much. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] That was so sweet. And we just had a really good time and then since then, it was just this closeness. You know, we will talk about everything: family gossip, clothes, culture, art, music - everything. We both shared a love of cooking. She expressed her love through the meals that she made. And you could tell that there was so much love and time put into it. Congolese food, naturally, you just have to really love somebody to make Congolese food because it can take some time. And it's a process, but well worth it. And it's just...yeah, she...she was amazing. I miss her every day. Like that question, I'm amazed - I talk a lot - *laughs*

Jodi-Ann Burey: No, go for it.

Janice Omadeke: Between, you know, investor meetings and sales meetings and all the other things, I'm used to talking.  But somehow when you asked me that question, I found myself at a loss for words and instead flooded with this feeling of both sadness, but also this intense warmth of just like, basking in how incredible she was. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] You know, if you're sitting at the beach, and it's like you're just about to take a nap under the umbrella. There are little kids running around, but you're not getting sand kicked at you. You can hear the water but it's not gonna touch - that's what it felt like. Like that perfect summer day, under an umbrella at the beach, just basking in that warmth. That's what I just felt. And I don't know how to describe that.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah, it's a sensory feeling, right? [Janice: Mmhmm.] And I think that's interesting around - as you try to debate past or present tense. And I wonder if it's moments like that, that keep your mom in a present tense.

Janice Omadeke: She stays in a present tense with me. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] There are moments when - ‘cause she was always my biggest supporter. And she was my first phone call, always my first phone call. So even if I was having big meetings that I was nervous about, or something good, bad, whatever it was...she was always the first person I would call. So, especially recently, with just the growth of my company and the upward trajectory and how fast we've grown in 2020, there are so many moments where I still am like, Yes, okay, I'm gonna call Mommy, she's gonna be so excited. And then I catch myself. And I have to say, Wait, no, she's gone. I cannot call her and get her actual response. That's always-that's something new, especially, I've always known that. But the last, I would say 10 months or so it's been an interesting and bittersweet reminder. Because it's part, thank you. Right? Like, thank you for building up my resiliency to continue building a business in a pandemic. Thank you for, you know, bestowing your problem-solving skills on me and training me very young to solve problems and think outside the box and fostering this creative entrepreneur mindset that I didn't know I was cultivating when we were playing puzzles and other things. So there's that part of like, thank you and gratitude, and then also just this gutted feeling right after of: but I wish you were here. And neither of us can control that.

Jodi-Ann Burey: To be like the matriarch of your family...what impact did that have on who you are as daughter, as sibling, as your relationship to the other folks in your immediate family? What's your role?

Janice Omadeke: I was the matriarch-lite, is what I would say. If I had to give it like a specific role, I think it was Chief of Staff to the Matriarch, right, [Jodi-Ann: Love that. *laughs*] I saw - thank you *laughs* - you know, I saw the work that my mom put into building our family and the connectivity that she provided between all of us. And we're still close, but you know, I understood - just from intuition and the lived experience - the combination of loving somebody, but then also extending that emotional labor for other people in your family. Like, that's a lot of work. So I, especially as I got older, I would try to alleviate a lot of that, which is why I say was her Chief of Staff. So, you know, can I help plan the Thanksgiving menu? Can I go to the grocery store? Can I, you know, just tell her that she looks really pretty and that you know, just to relax? Can I make her a snack and bring it to her when I come home? Versus, you know, asking her for something - just little things that I could do to treat her like a queen and show that appreciation and really treat her the way that she treated all of us was kind of my role. Also, again, you know, problem solver. I've always had that role. I’m comfortable in that space and I’m comfortable functioning in that space. So, that was always a role that I had with - and still have with - my family.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I love the idea around the puzzles as that being your training ground to not only be matriarch-like, Chief of Staff in the household, but preparing you to be a Founder and CEO of your own company, which is not - I think, generally not - an easy thing to do. But, you know as immigrants, I feel like we are disproportionately taking on these-these roles of pioneering [Janice: Yes.] new things, right, because that is the legacy that we come from.

 Janice Omadeke: I'm so glad you brought that up, because I 100% agree. There's nothing like understanding what your parents did to come to America and make it in America. It humbles you. And, at least for me, I feel like I have no excuse. So, my family comes from the Congo, both my parents immigrated back in the 70s. But, you know, third-world nation. Serious poverty. And my mom came for undergrad and - very intelligent - wanted to major in computer science. Just so smart. So, so smart. And you know, she would tell us stories about the rebels that would invade the village and having to hide in the jungles and, you know, walking over rivers with alligators, and being a small girl and afraid or like, you know, seeing a classmates ponytail set on fire, like all sorts of stories, where the idea of being inconvenienced by anything in America, at least for me - and not to minimize the lived experiences of people right now, right, global pandemic, we're going through a lot - but when it comes to say, building a business? I remember what it took for my parents to be able to give three children that they didn't even know they were going to have, the opportunity to even consider building a business. Because there are cousins and relatives in the Congo that I know would kill for an opportunity to even have the freedom to have an idea as big as what I'm accomplishing. Right? So that's not lost on me. That's something that I think about every day, every day, like how could I not? [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] Right? So I do think that it mentally preps you, but then also *chuckles*, you know, African parents, they're tough. *both chuckle* They're tough, you know, that they're not messing around. It's a combination of compassion, but also a lot of tough love, a lot of direct feedback - which is very helpful when you're pitching investors and [Jodi-Ann: Exactly! *chuckles*] building a business. Because I'm like, you know what? I've probably heard worse at Thanksgiving, this is fine. You know, I'm used to hearing feedback, I'm used to having to have responses and having respect for people, even when what you're hearing is hard to respect.

So, I'm grateful for those experiences. And I'm grateful to be African. And I'm grateful to have had parents that immigrated and worked so hard to give us this life and the opportunity to think as big as I can and to think as big as I do every day.

Jodi-Ann Burey: And I think in that context, for us, as immigrants or first-generation folks, there can be this duty to make sure that whatever we do with our lives - because our parents made the sacrifice of leaving everything that they knew and, you know, migrating to a country where maybe you don't even have a network is not an easy thing to do - and especially to do that as a young person, I think about that a lot. Could I have done what my parents did when they did it?

Janice Omadeke: The idea [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] that my parents had three kids right now, like the age that I'm at right now, [Jodi-Ann: Yeah?] I think my mom had just me and my sister, and maybe my brother was on the way. That’s mind blowing to me. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah. *chuckles*] Because children aren't on my radar whatsoever. So it's just so crazy to think about the differences between generations.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I mean, I joke a lot that, you know, my mom needs to go to school without shoes on, and now she has multiple cars that talk to her. *Both laugh* Like the thing that can happen within a lifetime, [Janice: Yep.] within a generation, you know, realizing not just things that your parents couldn't have had at that time, but also having family, you know, back in Jamaica and other parts of the world to be concurrently realizing something that your contemporaries like your cousins and stuff, can't realize, I think there's a huge responsibility and duty to make sure that we're doing something and then like, Am I doing this right? I doubt myself sometimes, [Janice: Yep.] like, Am I, am I actualizing my parents dreams for their sacrifice? Like…

*Both laugh*

Janice Omadeke: You know, I used to [Jodi-Ann: Uh huh.] I used to have that doubt of like, Am I doing this right? But then I went home, and we were going through my mom's things and my dad-my dad had been talking about how my mom had a prayer for me and specifically for my company for a while. And so he found it, and he finally shared it with me. And that gave me so much clarity. Quite honestly, just seeing the way that she anticipated business hurdles, and she knew my personality and the prayers were so specific, like, in the face of adversity, please help her to remember. And bullet points. I mean, it was a blueprint for how I should be processing and functioning with growing the business and focus areas. And she wasn't an entrepreneur. I didn't know that she was listening. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] When I was going back and forth between Austin and DC, you know, I would be home, but I would still have meetings and things. I didn't know that when I thought she was napping, I would take a meeting next to her, or, you know, when she was having her chemo appointments, and I'd have to take a phone call, that those thing- that she was seeing it. And that's very affirming.

I also think the business has been on this upswing. I don't think it's a coincidence that we started gaining momentum and major wins, after her passing. I remember her saying that she would be watching and sending blessings from above. And I feel that. I feel that 100%. So for me, I don't feel that guilt. But I do feel this level of... Hmm, I don't know if pressure is the right word. Because I think that society has sort of changed that into something negative, but there's this insurmountable pressure. Because this, the mentor method is like the greatest love story and the greatest ode to her sacrifice that I could ever create, outside of you know, having a family or something. But there is this bigger meaning behind all of this. And that bigger meaning wasn't there when I first started the company.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Do you feel like it's a sense of, of legacy building?

Janice Omadeke: Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey:  When I think about pressure, I think about this greatness, this thing that is building up. And I see that and then I see that captured in legacy, like I'm in the path of a legacy. I'm building a legacy. And I think there's a, I don't want to say duty, but... I don't know if duty’s the right word or responsibility or like this is just the path for you based on the past sacrifices [Janice: Yes.]  and their expectations and their training and development of you. I don't know.

Janice Omadeke: Yes, that. Yes! That is exactly it. Thank you for articulating what I couldn't. It's this clarity. And it's kind of freaking me out to be honest with you. Because we spend so much time and we read so much about finding your purpose and what is your purpose and you need to have a purpose in life, etc, etc. And it's very interesting that I wasn't striving to find my purpose. I wanted to build a tech company that would help more people like me and help people like my parents - dynamic immigrants who got support from strangers - to make it the way they did and the way I've been able to, right? That is a purpose but then to really start digging into the inner why behind it because of my mom's cancer and because of that experience of losing her, I- there's no reason for me not to do this, like it has become incredibly clear. And it's a little mind blowing sometimes.

Jodi-Ann Burey:  No, I love that. I love that. And as you talk about your mom's prayer, I had a couple conversations with my mom after my cancer experience. And I think as the cloud of darkness started to lift, I started asking myself new questions like, wait, what was her experience in this whole thing, ‘cause you know, you can be all consuming around your own thing that you forget that this experience of my diagnosis belongs to other people, it impacts other people. And she told me that literally every single day - and I've seen her do this growing up, which was very frightening and a little unsettling. I think as you are reared in a Pentecostal Christian type of environment, you're kind of used to people just praying out loud. And so as she's describing it to me, I can see the image of this, of my childhood of my mom doing this, of just walking through the house, and at the top of her lungs, and crying, just praying and talking to God: [Janice: Mmm.] talking to God in English and speaking to God in tongues. And she said, every day after she heard about my diagnosis, and kind of got over the shock of that, she would be praying down the house, she prayed for everything. She said, even the person who cleans the room, I want you to, you know, “You put that person intentionally to watch over my daughter.” 

So as she's saying this, and I'm like getting goose bumps everywhere. What was interesting is that my biological uncle who's my mom's brother, his wife's sister, right, but my family's very close to like my aunt I did not know, worked at the hospital, where I got my treatment. She never ever worked on the floor where I was, but that day was randomly assigned to that floor and literally came in the room to clean the room. And my whole family was there. And it was like it [Janice: Wow], “Wait, auntie Pauline?” Like, it was so odd. Because she wasn't supposed to be there. And just imagine like, you go turn into a room and you see your whole family. 

And then when I got transferred to a different hospital, there was one day this woman came in to clean the room. And I saw her that one day never saw her again. And the whole time she was cleaning, she was just singing for me, like Amazing Grace or like something like that. And so when my, I knew I had these experiences, but didn't really talk about that with my mom, and then hearing what she was praying for, for me. [Janice: Yes.] From my experience, the thing that I went straight to was the song. And I don't know if you grew up in a Pentecostal church, but it goes like, *sings* “My mama prayed for me. Have me on her mind.” Right. So the lyrics of that song is “my mother prayed for me, had me on her mind / She took the time and prayed for me / I'm so glad she prayed.” And in the song, you just keep saying like, “I'm so glad she prayed. I'm so glad she prayed. I'm so glad she prayed for me.” [Janice: Oof.] And I think about not just my own experience, but I think about the lyrics to this song. And thinking about your mother prayed for you. She had you on her mind. She took the time. And she prayed for you. And also wrote this prayer down and to live in the actualization of the prayer is an outer body experience.

Janice Omadeke: I have no words, just tears. That's 100% true. What a powerful story.

Jodi-Ann Burey: And… *sighs* it's like it's making me tear up too, because, you know, I think about, you know, where would we be without the prayers of our mothers?

Janice Omadeke: I would be a lost soul. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] I have no idea. I have no idea because I've always had them. And I think sometimes we also forget the privilege. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] That we have of having mothers that pray, and have prayed, for us. I have no idea where I-it's something that since before I was born was happening. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] So I can't answer that question. But that's humbling. I think that's the best way to put how I'm feeling right now, just in awe and humbled. [pause] I'm very grateful that you know, you and I both have good relationships and that we-that you have, and I had a mother that was doing that for us.

Jodi-Ann Burey:  Yeah. I want to talk about your mother, and what her journey was [Janice: Sure.] when she started getting sick to the path to her diagnosis.

Janice Omadeke:  Yeah. So that was December 2017? Yep, December 2017. She had been mentioning that, you know, she'd been having some stomach pains and other things. And her doctor said that it was just acid reflux. But she was like, “No, I feel like there's something more here. Like, what is this?” And so eventually, things got really bad. So she went to the ER, they removed her gallbladder, that didn't change. You know, this was the 21st, December 21, 2017. And so, you know, she spent Christmas, she spent her birthday, she spent my dad's birthday, thankfully, she was released from the hospital New Year's Day, I believe, or the day before. I mean, it felt like a year went by in that nine day period, because we didn't know for sure. 

The hospital staff were of course touch-and-go and just having to stand in and advocate for my mom.  I'm glad that I was able to be there and do those things. But it was a very trying process. Finally, the doctor suggested doing a Whipple surgery for the pancreatic cancer. So she had that, I believe, on January 3rd. And that confirmed the diagnosis and that, you know, they weren't sure how long she would have to live. They were thinking, you know, four months, she made it from January to August 11th of that year. So it was a tough journey, especially that early period. I mean, my dad was just staying at the hospital every night. My mom's sister, my aunt, they were soulmates. Truly, I've never seen two people so close, ever. [Jodi-Ann: *chuckles*] Like there's something about that relationship between the two of them where, you know, my aunt, who is also a nurse. You know, I remember, my - I think my dad was the one that was telling me about this conversation that she - my aunt had with my mom, where my aunt was saying, “God made me a nurse, because he knew one day, I would need to know how to take care of you.”

Jodi-Ann Burey:  Mmm, that's a bond.

Janice Omadeke: Right? No, that is a bond. I've never, I don't think one can ever replicate. You know, for me, when I think about that experience, I have my own views of it. But I also just, - again, Chief of Staff to the Matriarch - I was also very aware of where everyone was, and their responses to what was happening. And maintain that through, you know, the entire cancer process. Just checking in, right, so checking in with my brother. You know, society says Black men - feelings and Black men aren't always, you know, middle of the Venn diagram, right. And so making sure that I'm holding space for him to really have his feelings and process and ask how he's doing. Making sure that my dad is, you know, he's doing okay, making sure my sister's adjusting and my aunt is taking care of herself. Like just doing what I know my mom would have done in that position. Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey:  Yeah. And doing all of that, going back and forth between DC and Austin, right. [Janice: Yeah.] How did you...

Janice Omadeke: That was wild. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah. *laughs*] Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey:  Like, that sounds like, ugh! How did you manage that? *chuckles*

Janice Omadeke: You know, I think about that - I think about it, not frequently now - but especially in the beginning of COVID and sheltering in place, right? It was me and my thoughts in my apartment, it was like, Great, we're just gonna sit down and process some things. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] But I look back on that, like 2018 especially, and I do not know who that was, and how I did that.I don't know. I have no idea. Going back and forth, and building the business. And just every, like, building a business itself is such a highly emotional and high-pressure situation. Adding in your best friend, your number one supporter, fighting for her life and needing to play both Founder, but then also more importantly, daughter, I don't know how I did that. But I'm very proud of the fact that I'm here, and able to talk about it. And, you know, have been putting the work into the healing to process and absorb all that it took to do that. But when I do think about it, sometimes I just feel tired for that person. [Jodi-Ann: *laughs*] Like, oh my God, I just want to hug that person [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] and let them rest and sit down. That it is so much.

Jodi-Ann Burey: It's *sighs* This goes a little bit back to the track thing, right? Like, who you are, as you're doing this and who you get to be when you stop. And [Janice: Mmm.] I think about myself that way too. There's this splitting of yourself. And when I think about myself, during this time, I use similar language around, oh, that version of me or that person, as if it's not me. To the point where and this has been a big conversation in my family right now that I'm considering and likely will legally change my last name. [Janice: Okay.]

And as I was kind of thinking about the decision making of that, I was like, well, Jodi-Ann Burey, the person with that last name had cancer. This new name, this is someone who did not have that. And I wonder what it costs us as individuals, as Black women, as folks in the legacy of immigrants, [Janice: Mmm.] to do that work of splitting ourselves like what, what does it cost us to be that way?

Janice Omadeke: *sighs* That’s a great question. And I don't know if we'll ever know, because I don't think we're given the luxury of time to really think about that, or the luxury of choosing another path.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. I think people look at the stories, like, all the benefits of what it takes to do that. [Janice: Right.] Like, how you’re able to support your family, how you're able to support your mom, how you're able to build your business and they’re like, “Oh, my gosh, you know, Janice you're so strong, that's amazing [Janice: *laughs*] that you've been able to manage all of this. [Janice: Yeah.] You know, look at all the great things that are happening in your business. And you're like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait.”

Janice Omadeke: True. I mean, I am very grateful for those because I know, for every success that I've had, there are thousands of incredible, dynamic, Black women business owners that deserve the same level of shine that I'm receiving. And that's not lost on me. Right, this system is not in our favor. And I'm grateful for the opportunities that I can then extend them to others as well and keep the door open.

But, at the same time, when people say that, I think recently someone said, “Congratulations, I can't believe you've done all of this,” etc, etc. And in my head, I was like, You know, I should send a thank you note to my therapist. Because they have done a lot of work on me over the last couple of years, [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] and especially this year. You know, it's not, it's not a one woman army. I definitely have help and understand needing to ask for help, and focusing on my mental health, connecting with the feelings and the process so that I can, you know, reach these levels of success, and not self implode or anything. 

Jodi-Ann Burey: And that takes a lot of work. And I think,

Janice Omadeke: Yes. *laughs* A lot of work.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Thank you to all the therapists out there.

Janice Omadeke: Thank you, Danielle. You're amazing.

Jodi-Ann Burey: *laughs* And you know, as I think about what it takes mentally, physically to do that work as you're describing this time of your mom’s sickness to her passing. I think sometimes we miss things in the go, go go. Do you feel like you were conscious of the idea that your mom would die? 

Janice Omadeke: Yes. 100%. I'm a little concerned at how quickly I answered that. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] But yes. I wasn’t hoping for it. It's nothing that I was putting out in the universe to have happen. But with the matriarch Chief of Staff, I knew what the outcome could be. And I knew that there may, I may need to prepare accordingly. Right?

So for example, when we started at-home hospice, there was that - I don't remember what it's called – like a surge of energy before things get worse. And so we faced that, but I knew what it was because I had been doing research on what to expect the last 10 to 15 days. And, you know, made sure to have her favorite pastor come visit while she was still able to have a conversation and have him pray for her.

So my mom started at-home hospice, it was Saturday, they started at-home hospice, the following Saturday, she passed away. My sister was planning on coming home the day that she passed away. Thankfully, I was like, “You know what, nope, I need her to come home now. She's not going to get this time back, when I don't know what's going to happen. But just in case, she needs to be here.” So, making sure that my sister came home, making sure that the pastor, she was able to get time with him. You know, even having a list of funeral homes and things. The day my mother passed away, my brother and I...because had done research on cemeteries, which sounds so morbid, and I know my voice, it sounds more chipper than it is. It was not. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.]

I did not want to do these things. But I knew that if we weren't prepared - even if she survived - it was good to be prepared so that we could give her the best possible send off, and not scramble, not fight, not have heightened emotion. Pretty much everything that she hated. Right? She was very much a planner, very much an event person, put them on seamlessly. I wanted to make sure that we would do that for her. And that she wouldn't be watching her children, like, stressed or trying to put this together.

 So, you know, even the day that she passed away, my brother and I, that morning, went to a cemetery that I had done a lot of research on just to look at it, check out the grounds, we even looked at exactly where we thought would be a good place if we needed to. Stopped by the florist to get quotes, just in case. And then came home. And then a few hours later, she passed away and it was time to start making phone calls.

So it's - I feel [long pause] I feel conflicted when I am able to say yes, I was prepared. And yes, I saw that as a possibility. Not because I wasn't hopeful, right? I also had a plan for her recovery party when she would be cancer-free and that she would beat it. You know, I also had quotes for venues that we could host people and like a budget for that, too. So I had a plan for both. But I mentally prepared myself for both situations just in case.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I'm listening to this. I hear your pain. I hear the work. I hear the labor, I hear the loss, I hear the grief. And I'm also hearing, like so many other Black women and other women of color who experience these things, but maybe they don't sound like they're experiencing grief. Like as you said, like “Oh, I’m surprised that I said yes so quickly.” Or, you know, “I don't mean this to sound chipper.” Like there are ways that you sound where people might think that you're okay. And I'm listening to this and I can feel, I can feel [Janice: Yeah.] the work and the grief. Like I believe and know that this process is very challenging, the work that you did. And so, I'm curious, like how you navigate your own emotional world: what people think grief is supposed to look and sound like [Janice: Mmm.] and what that looks and sounds like for you?

Janice Omadeke: Again, you know, I have to attribute the fact that I really don't care how people think I'm supposed to grieve. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] I don't care if it's different. I don't care if it's the norm. I don't care what it's supposed to be because my parents raised me to not care about those things. Follow your own path because that's what God made for you. [Jodi-Ann: Mmm.] I almost feel this resistance and a little bit of attitude to the idea that there's someone out there who thinks that they are so all knowing and so powerful and so influential, that their views and perception of what grief should be, should be accepted as the norm. Like, who is that person? I would like - If you find that person, [Jodi-Ann: laughs] give them my number. I would love to have a conversation with that person and humble them a little bit, quite frankly. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] Because there's no right or wrong way to grieve.

On the other side of that, I recognize that if I went to an event, and I'm at a booth, and I'm talking to the Founder of this company, for an award that they don't know if they're going to win or not. And I asked them “Oh, I haven't seen you in a few days.” And the response was, “Yeah, you know, my mother passed away on Saturday,” and this event is on Thursday, or on Wednesday. I would have some questions too. Right, like that's not lost on me. Like, [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] what the hell are you doing here, like, are you okay? [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.]  Like blink twice, if you need help, like, that is in-sane to me.

But grief also manifests in different ways. So, I think that I would also, hopefully, be able to have the humility to understand that my views on that are not the same as everyone else's. Yeah, I think when people think of grief, you're either supposed to be in bed all day, every day, or you're supposed to just not feel it and be numb. And for me, I think I was those two and everything in between.

Some days still, some days are good days. And, you know, I'm looking at the pictures that are on my wall of her, you know, but then there are also days where it's just harder. And I am grateful that I know, to just let the feelings happen as they happen. Or I look at how, you know, close family and friends are grieving her still. Right, and what that looks like. Everybody's path is different and I can't prescribe how someone is supposed to grieve. Somebody that meant that much to them. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah. Or judge that they’re not grieving.] Or judge. That's right. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.]

Right. I dare somebody to try to judge me for not grieving the way that they think I should. And if I ever judged somebody for grieving in a way that, you know, helps them heal - I would hope that somebody would check me but I also hope that I wouldn't. I mean, there's also the flip side of that coin, right? Where I have friends that are going through tough times, and we're seeing a major uptick in illicit drug use or alcohol or other vices to numb out and hide versus really address it. And in those moments, you know, I make sure not to judge and just focus on the concern I feel for that person. And try to hold space so that they can let some of that out. Right, because oftentimes, at least in my experience, that's a cry for help. So how do we hear that cry without infantilizing or invading a boundary that they're not ready to cross yet?

Jodi-Ann Burey: I think about before the experience that I went through all the times that I judged other people for their grieving process, and it made me feel so [pauses] dirty. Like, [Janie: Mmm.] I remember my sister went through a really tough time when she lost a child. And [Janice: I’m so sorry.] I just like, Yeah, and I was in my 20s or something. And I just, I feel so ashamed to say this. I never called her. I never called her after I found out what happened.

And, there was this moment where, ‘cause she has five kids now and she like, left her whole family to come to the hospital. She was sitting with me, and it was just me and her. And I remember I was just crying. I was absolutely beside myself. [Janice: Mmm.] And I was just like, “I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.” Like I didn't know. I didn't know what trauma felt like. I didn't know what grief felt like. I didn't know. I didn't do the right thing. Because I was miss... [Janice: Mmm.] I didn't show up for her. And I was like, judging how she should have handled losing her child. [Janice: Mmm.] I just did not understand what it looks like when Black women grieve and go through trauma. That it doesn't look like, yeah. 

Janice Omadeke: You may never know. 

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't know. And... ugh. That's the Pandora's box. Like, how do you support Black women in pain? *chuckles*

Janice Omadeke: Mm. Oh my gosh. Can we make a podcast about that? 

Jodi-Ann Burey: I know. *chuckles* You know!? How do you... *both chuckle* Like, how do you support a Black woman in pain? And that's for everyone. And that's even for ourselves.

Janice Omadeke: Yeah. I'm thinking about that. The things to bring to the table when dealing with a Black woman in pain? [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] Compassion. Respect. Humanizing that pain.  [Jodi-Ann: Mmm.] You know, we've talked a bit about in this podcast about how Black women are bred to be strong. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] Right. From birth, we have this digestion of generational trauma and systemic oppression that says we cannot feel we just have to be the strong robots that are fetishized and overworked and underappreciated, right? And so when a Black woman is in pain, the best thing you can do is remove those. See her as the human being that she is. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.]  Have respect. Hold space. Make sure that it's a safe space, so that she knows it's okay to have that pain. 

I recognize the privilege that I have, by having an amazing support system, where they naturally hold space for me. And I also know to ask to have that space when I need it. I also know, based on familiar patterns and other things that I've seen, that there are a lot of people who... the idea of having that is just a foreign concept and not something that they would think about. So having the onus to voluntarily do that without being asked, I think is one of the best things you can do. Don't give solutions. Right? I mean like the standard pieces of advice that you hear when someone is grieving. You know, don't give solutions. Don't tell them that it's all part of God's plan. Tell me what part of the plan means that I need to lose my best friend and mother, all in one time. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] That's such an interesting, I'm going to sit and process that later today. That's a really good question.

Jodi-Ann Burey: *sighs* Yeah, and I'm sitting with it too, in ways that I've upheld the standard for myself and uphold a standard for other people that, like they need to be strong, they need to move forward. And there are ways where sometimes I'm starving for a space to be a person.

Janice Omadeke: Mm. Mmmhmm. Mmhmm. Absolutely. 

Jodi-Ann Burey: But then, I don't offer that to other people. *chuckles*

Janice Omadeke: Or sometimes people just don't want it. I've had that too. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] Where someone's like, “Yeah, you know, this is my fifth day waking up at 2am and going to bed at 1am.” And instinctively, again, because of the privilege I've been awarded to have had a family that supported emotional intelligence and well-being, it's, “Well, how are you feeling? Do you need help?” Like, I immediately go into matriarch mode myself. [Jodi-Ann: Yep.] And turn into somebody auntie and start, you know, caring for them. And sometimes people don't want that. They're like, “Didn't ask for this.” [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] Right. It's, yeah. 

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. Like, I didn't ask for that. And also, I don't even know what to do with that. Like, the few times - [Janice: That’s what it is.] Yeah. *chuckles* The few times people have said like, “Do you need help?” I'm like, I'm sorry. Are you speaking another language? I don't understand the question. Can you? .... *both chuckle*

Janice Omadeke: Well, I mean, think about it. So, I'm so glad you brought that up because I was thinking about this as well. Just, you know, general COVID reflections about help.  And women's relationship to help. I have no problem asking for help. For example, when I moved to Austin for MassChallenge, I came up with Google Doc of companies I wanted to meet and people I wanted introductions to. [Jodi-Ann: Yes you did.] I have zero problem asking for help in my business. *chuckles* Right? But, at the same time, I sometimes do still have a hard time asking for help with personal things. And I was like, Why is that? OK, what am I digesting? What have I been around in those formative early 20s timeframes? Right? What was popular? The Good Wife? Do you remember that show? [Jodi-Ann: Yes, I.]  I don’t know if you ever watched it. [Jodi-Ann: Yes, girl. *chuckles*] Do you remember how she had a philandering husband, was more mature career wise, but had to go back to being a junior associate, toxic work culture, this weird relationship with her boss, basically. And she's applauded for doing all of this without - I think she cries like twice in the entire show. 

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. [Janice: Right.] She's a very stoic look, like. 

Janice Omadeke: Yes, exactly. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] But that was sort of what was seen as like the, I mean, the title “The Good Wife” [Jodi-Ann: Mmhmm.] Right? That was what was seen as Emmy worthy. Being tortured and sad, but then, quote unquote, strong for not having any sort of sign of emotions. I understand the idea of not bringing those to work, [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] makes sense. But even in her downtime, it's just like, Oh, she's just having a whiskey and then getting right back into the office.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Also, why are we socializing alcoholic? Between her [Janice: Right.] and Olivia Pope, like? *chuckles* Like anytime...

Janice Omadeke: I have a strong affinity for Olivia Pope. So I'm gonna have a hard time saying anything bad about her. *both chuckle* And Kerry Washington, especially. I can't, I can't. 

Jodi-Ann Burey: *chuckles* I’m not saying anything bad about it. But it's like, here are these strong women, quote unquote, strong women who are dealing with a lot of traumas in different parts of their lives. [Janice: Mmhmm.] And instead of emoting, they are just drinking a glass. And then that's how they process their feelings. It just, I don't know. 

Janice Omadeke: Which is totally fine. Like if somebody, if that's how they process and it's in a healthy way for them. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] fine. But I do think that we're doing women a disservice [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] by consistently promoting that message. And then anytime -  Like, think about it, any sort of show where a woman is having a heightened sense of emotions, it's played in a way where it's, you know, Jane Doe was having a meltdown. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah. *chuckles*] And because she was having strong feelings, she's fired. She's broken up with. She's homeless. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] And once she gets control of her feelings, and stifles them and puts them back down where they're supposed to be, suddenly, love, jobs, everything comes back together. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] So listen up, ladies. You better not have these feelings. Otherwise, whoa!  [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] You know, be careful. Everything will go wrong. Like, is that not the message we've seen since day one? 

Jodi-Ann Burey: Oh, yeah. And so you're like, Oh, this is who we're supposed to be. And I think that's why I appreciate Molly's character on Insecure. [Janice: Mmm.] I think that was the first, or one of the few times -  And in some instances, Annalise Keating, in How to Get Away with Murder where there’s - 

Janice Omadeke: I was just about to say that! Oh, God. Mother, Viola. 

Jodi-Ann Burey: I know, I know. *sigh* Viola, a queen. [Janice: Oh my gosh.] So, there are these moments in these character’s lives where they're actually actively in therapy, right? *chuckle* We get to see them - [Janice: Right.] in therapy. And you're like, Okay. This is also a way that you can kind of process and then you can see some of the cause and effect. Like, something happens in my life, I tell my therapist about it. Or my therapist told me something, I'm processing something. And then we can see some changed behavior, changed approaches to a situation. And so you've talked a bit about your therapist, Danielle, and I'm curious, you know, if you could share a bit about how therapy supported you in your grief process.

Janice Omadeke: Therapy has been the best thing. I've been - I'm a big supporter of therapy. I was going to therapy before it was social media worthy, if you will. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah. *chuckles*] So, just because - [Jodi-Ann: For the hashtags. *chuckles*] Yeah, exactly. For the likes. I hate that culture. But anyway, so I was doing it before then. Just because, you know, coming from DC, working for Fortune 1000 companies, it's a very high negative pressure. Right? ‘Cause we talked about positive pressure, I think previously, so [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] a high negative pressure environment. And I had a lot of anxiety and I didn't know what that was, you know? Coming from my family structure, anxiety was like, Take a nap. Like, what are you - what do you, what does this anxious thing you're talking about?

Jodi-Ann Burey: *chuckles* Take a nap, girl. *chuckles* Go to sleep. 

Janice Omadeke: Yeah. It just wasn't, it wasn't a thing. And so, you know, I did do a lot of therapy for my corporate anxiety and worked through that. I think, also just growing up, right? I mean, it's, I don't - Again, like looking back, I don't know how I was 22, making $35,000 in a very expensive city, paying rent, paying for gas, paying for parking, having to buy new clothes, because you have to keep up with the status quo in the office to get promoted. All of those things, like, it's not surprising that I needed therapy *chuckles*, quite honestly. [Jodi-Ann: Mmhmm.] 

Fast forward, right, 10 years later now, with the grief process and everything else. I just recognized that it's like, I don't need to do this alone. And if I'm going to, you know, call an electrician, if something's going wrong in the apartment, I need to take care of myself with a higher level of diligence than I do for a place that I don't even own, right? [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] Like, I should have enough respect for myself to want my well-being to be at the forefront. Because it translates into how I build my business. It translates into my general view of the world and how I enter it - how I enter into spaces, how I arrive for friends and family. So, I really doubled down on therapy and workshops, and, you know, that healing process in 2020. One, because there was time, and I'm very grateful for the privilege of being able to sit and reflect, right? I recognize that there are millions of people who don't have that luxury, and I'm very grateful and very aware of that privilege. 

So, you know, using the time, using the funds, and the resources to be able to invest in myself in therapy has been a game changer, and a lifesaver, quite honestly. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] The grief process is almost like an octopus. Right at the center, you have the grief; so the loss of the individual. But then you have all of these tentacles around it for other areas that need to get addressed. And oftentimes, that grief is the pathway to heal those other areas. So it could be the loss of my mother from cancer. But then there's also the healing from epigenetics and, you know, societal pressure, and all these other areas that needed to get addressed to help me become a more complete person. 

Do I still feel as though there is a piece of me that has been cut off and will never grow back because of the loss? Absolutely. But I at least am able to name it. Right? I am able to understand it, and hear it and process it, versus running away or not understanding. And that's such a gift. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] It's such a gift to be able to, you know, do the work and have the mental health resources to be able to-to do that. And address the other, you know, eight, or however many other things that become connected through that grief process that you don't even know, are connected until you really sit down and start getting vulnerable with yourself.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Oh, yeah. And I think that that's the journey of therapy, and the power of sticking with it if you can, [Janice: Mm. Mhmm.] because you come in for one thing like, this is what I want to talk about, this is the source of my pain and grief. And then seven sessions later, you are not talking about that anymore. *laughs* [Janice: Yeah.] There are other….there are all these other elements that you end up discussing. And you know, for me, when I first started talking to my therapist, I was going through all this was cancer stuff. [Janice: Mhm.] Fast forward, you know, we're talking about where I got this sense of worthlessness, or where are some of these other elements and messages that are rooted and wrapped up in the cancer story. And so, it's so dynamic, there's no cause and effect, everything's just so integrated. [Janice: Mhmm.] And, you know, I just say that as a way to emphasize, like, the work that therapy needs, like you have to stick with it. [Janice: A lot of the work happens…] Yeah.

Janice Omadeke: What is that quote? A lot of the work happens outside of therapy, or something like that. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] But it’s true. I remember when I first heard it. Internally, I rolled my eyes and kept going. But now I really do see it. It's true. [Jodi-Ann: Yep. *laughs*] It’s true. 

Ya know what's coming up for me right now? I'm thinking about when we met last year. I had no idea… the battle that you had ju--like, I had no idea. [Jodi-Ann: Mmmm.] Hearing you talk about it right now really put the timeline into perspective, where you're saying you were going through your process, I was going through mine. We met at a networking event, and neither of us showed a fleck of [Jodi-Ann: Yep. Yep.] pain, processing -- none of it. We didn't skip a beat. 

Jodi-Ann Burey:  Nope. And I'm looking at you like, look at this incredible woman, this entrepreneur, she's so put together, [Janice: Same!] she's so poised, and I was like, nervous to be around you because I'm like this woman is - I'm not worthy. I'm not worthy.

 Janice Omadeke: Thank you for activating my imposter syndrome with that compliment.

Jodi-Ann Burey: *laughs* It's so funny how sometimes we can't even see each other. Because, like I said, our timelines are similar. And when this inciting incident around our cancer traumas happened, and we were both...I don't want to say performing, because I think who we were at this networking event are also authentic parts of ourselves.

Janice Omadeke: And that was required. I'm not going to show up in llama sweatpants crying when it's time to build my business. You just have to know which side of you to activate. 

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. I'm curious: for you, do you think that grief or trauma -- does grief ever pass? Like, does it ever [Janice: Mhmm.] leave us alone? What happens to it? 

Janice Omadeke: Uhm...I don't think so. I think it depends on the relationship. Right? Like I...I don't think so. I think it just takes on a different shape and a different process. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] I mean, I'm even thinking about my own grief process, right? How I'm dealing with it now is very different than how I dealt with it a year ago, which is different than how I dealt with it, the remaining portion of 2018 when my mom passed. Even now, there are different ways that it's coming up. So I don't, I don't think - I think you always grieve, I think it just manifests differently. I think it's...obtuse to think that grief will always stay the same, because you don't stay the same. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] Right? I'm thinking about the ways in which my grief process has changed, has also aligned with the ways in which I've just changed in general. 

So when I feel my frequency shifting [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] to a higher level, as it should be, as I'm growing, the business, etc. And my frequency changes and as I'm more aware of what the universe is bringing, like the fruits of this labor that I've been putting in for so long, I think the grief also shifts. That's just a fair expectation of the process for me. But I know for other people, it's going to be completely different.

Jodi-Ann Burey: As you've shared your timeline with me, I'm realizing we’re coming upon the anniversaries of these moments. [Janice: Yep.] How have you or how will you kind of manage and navigate these like, I don't know, trauma anniversaries, I go through them too. [Janice: Mmm. Mhmm.]

I always know. Like, when I can tell you the date and time when I got the diagnosis. I can tell you this is the day that this thing happened. I can when I double back on those dates. [Janice: Yeah.] I become a different person during that time. And so I'm just curious, like, if you’ve even thought about that, as you're approaching these dates?

Janice Omadeke: Oh, of course. Yeah. I started thinking about it in November. Just proactively. Again, I mean, similar to what I did with both the funeral and the celebration concept, right. Or even having this conversation with you. I intentionally wanted to have it on a day where I knew I had therapy right after. Right? [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] 

I'm very intentional about self-respect. And I think I'm part of that-not isn't just advocacy, which is what we've been taught, right? But I think it's also being able to do the work of knowing what you need and anticipating it. So I know for a fact and I tell people, “Hey”, like close friends, “Hey, I might seem a little different in December, it's just because of A, B and C,” right? [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] “This was a challenging time” or whatever it was. “Just FYI, I might be reaching out, I might need something different, or I might need something specific.” 

So, quite frankly, right now I'm in a space where I'm like, I hate December. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] Right. Like, that's just sort of what I think when it comes time. But then I also am not like in a self-gaslighting way. But I also think about the good times, you know, the reason I've hurt so much is because Thanksgiving and Christmas were, you know, me and my mom's Super Bowl, if you will. We would get up at five in the morning. She and I were the only morning people in our family. [Jodi-Ann: *laughs* Uh-huh.] So we would get up at five in the morning, workout for an hour, have our girl time, you know, prep, holiday brunch, or whatever it was. And again, Chief of Staff, I was making sure that she wouldn't have to put the whole meal together on her own. So I will be helping out - the whole family helped - but that just quiet “us time”, for a good concentrated four hours, is just some of the most memorable times I've had with her. So for me, it's more of the morning of not having that ritual - that I didn't even recognize as a privilege to have. [Jodi-Ann: Hmm.] 

Ugh. Quite honestly, I would give anything for one more holiday with her. Anything. There's nothing I wouldn't do to have one more holiday with her. *pause* The month of December is just tricky for me, because I'm grateful to have had those opportunities. But then it's still this gutted feeling of, but I will not have more. But then I'm also encouraged that I can share those, you know. And one day, if I choose to have a family, and repeat those patterns and those traditions and things, that'll be a way of both grieving, but also paying respects and having this quiet, connected moment that nobody knows I'm internally having with my mother at that point.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I think that's really beautiful in respecting her, remembering her. Recognizing the privilege of the rituals and the gratitude for those things that were happening. And it just brings me back to what we were talking about around the gratitude for them, our mothers for praying for us. That there was work and bonding and love and care that just happened between us, between you and your mom. Just being really grateful for that. [Janice: Yep.] 

So you know, as I think about December for you, I'm thinking about you, [Janice: Thank you.] as you think about your mom.

Janice Omadeke: I appreciate that. I genuinely do. I feel warm, and I feel touched by that. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] I’m fighting the urge to weep right now. Thank you. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] That's very kind.

Jodi-Ann Burey: As you think about the intricacies of your story, and your relationship with your mom, and this process of sharing her story, sharing your relationship with her with folks who listen to this... I'm curious if there's anything that you would want to share for folks who can identify with your experience in some way.

Janice Omadeke: Mhmm. Do what you need to do to take care of yourself. I think that's probably the most important thing. And then for those that are in relationship, whether that's Platonic, friendship, familial, romantic, whatever the relationship is, with somebody who's going through that grief process, hold that space, but don't expect them to behave in a way that you would want them to. Like, let them go through that process and hold that space to be available for them. I think that's really important. Community is important when you're grieving. Going back to, you know, those who are grieving...it's just hard. There's nothing that can be said or done in that moment.

For me, I think one of the best things that I've been able to do -- and it will be different for everybody -- is to learn the ability to be still. And the ability to really receive what's happening internally. So really fine tuning that mind-body-spirit connection. That's not only helped me just, in general, with grief, but I see how it's translating into other areas of my life. And I think that's really important. Because that's just something that we don't teach kids early on, which I really think that we should -- just self compassion and the ability to emote, and have that connection with yourself and with that frequency. So I would encourage people to take the time to start building up that skill set. If they want to. 

Jodi-Ann Burey: I think that's really powerful. And I think that's what a lot of folks are, are working through with their therapist right now. *laughs*

Janice Omadeke: *laughs* Good, I am pro-therapy, pro-workshops.

Jodi-Ann Burey: *chuckles* Yeah, I just think--like, I wonder what my conversations with my therapist would be like, if I had a trained mindset to be compassionate towards myself and my feelings and my circumstance and, and my emotions.

Janice Omadeke: *laughs* Still a mess.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah, yeah, yeah. *laughs* That’s a fact. 

Janice Omadeke: Still a mess. You know, if it is what it is. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.] And that's the point. [Jodi-Ann: Yeah.]

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Jodi-Ann Burey, as host: Black Cancer is created, edited and produced by me, Jodi-Ann. Thank you so much, Janice, for sharing your story with us. To make sure that other Black Cancer stories become center to how we talk about cancer, rate, subscribe, just take a few minutes, leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Check out our new website at blackcancer.co and on Instagram @_black_cancer. 

Trauma comes with endless wisdom for ourselves and those around us. That person you're thinking of - tell them about Black Cancer.

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