Full Episode Transcript

Episode 4: I’m Going to Tell Him Everything (with Lauren Tarpley)

Running time: 1:17:55

Lauren Tarpley: I saw a thing that said like, protect our black women. And as a black woman, I was like, well, I don't know if I feel like I need protecting. And then literally 30 minutes later, I was like, yeah the fuck I do. I definitely need protecting. We are not listened to, we're not heard. We do need protecting.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Welcome to Black Cancer. A podcast about the nuances of our lives as people of color told through our cancer journeys. I'm your host Jodi-Ann Burey, our guest on today's episode is Lauren Tarpley. There are two ways you can find her on Instagram. You can find her @typeaguidetocancer and also @lifewithlittleones.podcasts. At the time of this recording, Lauren was about a third of the way through her chemotherapy treatment. For the breasties out there Lauren is BRCA-, HER2+ and hormone receptor negative. She's a wife with a toddler and because of her cancer diagnosis, she also has three little boys in the freezer, her description, not mine.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Lauren and I talk about her diagnosis path and what it means for both of us to be in a statistically unlikely situation. You'll hear us talk a lot about AYA cancers, an acronym used for adolescent and young adult cancer patients, which is an experience Lauren elevates on her platform. We also talk about decision-making for her family planning, specifically navigating this as a young adult. Okay. So heads up. We do have a mic switch just a few minutes into the episode. Listen, we are trying to make this podcast in the pandemic. So thank you so much for understanding, here's my conversation with Lauren.

Lauren Tarpley: ... Sir. Yeah. And he's like, I'm ready to go over see my wife. I'm like, I'm really sorry about that. But this is so uncomfortable. Like you're my grandfather in law. Like I don't know what to do with this information. And please, do not tell the only black girl in this room and in his family that you're ready to die and then die, I can't.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I remember being in college once and I was sitting in the lecture hall and I really was like, one day it's just done. You don't have thoughts anymore. You're not participating in whatever is happening in the world. Like you're just not a part of it anymore.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey:

And I remember having to leave the lecture hall because I was crying. It was hard grasp-

Lauren Tarpley: Yes, super heavy.

Jodi-Ann Burey: ... it's hard to think that like you just won't exist anymore. Then after my cancer stuff, I was like, whatever, it'll be all right.

Lauren Tarpley: Now, that's the part that had me twisted all the way. Like you're young and we're in these invincible years, like you made it through high school against every odd, you made it through college against every odd. I love that meme where it's like, I don't know why you're worried about what's in the corona vaccine because you paid a random man outside of a liquor store to buy you something that was extremely colored. So like Mad Dog 20/20, or Hpnotiq or anything to make incredible hulks. Then you went in the woods, sometimes with that man.

And like a bunch of kids drank all those things, snuck home. And then you woke up at five o'clock in the morning, oh, I can't wait to go to church with the family. And then like, you're going to worry about some Moderna, Pfizer or J&J like, you've been choosing like a lot. Like if you can make it through Four Loko, you can make it through anything... That is the truth. If make it through high school, giving strange men money and let them hang out with you in the query, like down by the rocks, and running water and you live.

Jodi-Ann Burey: It sounds very specific.

Lauren Tarpley: Don't judge my past behavior. Okay.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I'm not judging.

Lauren Tarpley: So then we make it to this point and we're supposed to be invincible, right? Because we made it through all that other trash and then somebody was like, you have cancer. And you're like, oh man, that's going to be what takes me out. That's the way we're stuffing cancer. Like I like, oh man, I didn't think cancer wanted a part of this. The things of this body in the last 35, I thought cancer was like, we won't make it in there. Nope. We won't make it in. We won't make it out.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Anybody who's listening to this that has never experienced cancer in their lives at all are probably mortified by the casualness of this. But I think that's how it be sometimes.

Lauren Tarpley: That's how it has to be. Like, I mean, it's been like eight months ago somebody stared me actually it's pretty called me and was like, Hey, you have cancer. And I was like, okay, you call me in the middle of my work day tell me I have cancer. I'm like, all right, dawg, I'll holla at you on Monday, it's Friday at 10 o'clock that's rude. Like don't fuck with my weekend. And then after that you go through all these things, some of the tests and you know firsthand, the surgery could like the biopsy, the surgery, the diagnostic work could kill you. Cat scans are not healthy has radioactive material.

So when I joke around about my grandfather-in-law, the only thing we talk about is death. Like, that's kind of funny to me. And so my husband's dad's brother. So like my husband's uncle got diagnosed around the same time as me. And he's so much older that they're not going to do chemo. He's got a colon cancer. And he messaged me and was like, Lauren, I have gold in my butt. And I was like, this seems very inappropriate. Like I had only had like three conversations with you.

Jodi-Ann Burey: That's when you start texting someone back and you're like, are you sure this was the right box? I don't know, these messages.

Lauren Tarpley: We'll, look at my experiences. Yeah. Poppy telling me he's just ready to die at like, like friend Sanford, every time I talked to him, he was like, oh Lucy, I'm coming to join you. I'm like, oh my God, can we get our bread? Can we just get the bread? And then you can talk about dying sight. Then I got uncle who's texted me on Facebook, messaging me talking about, I got gold in my butt. I'm like, what are you even? He was like, yeah. They told me I had colon cancer and you're one of the few people that understand I'm like, you almost made it. Like, he's almost 80. Right.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: That actually made me feel a little better about starting radiation because the day was number eight out of 25. I am exactly 32% finished with radiation, very excited about that.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Okay. How do you feel about your eight out of 25? How's that feeling?

Lauren Tarpley: I feel good. I feel really, really good. I was very nervous to start radiation, nearly defiant to start radiation. I really didn't want to do it. And 50% of it is anxiety of another treatment of the list of side effects they give you and tell you what's permanent, what's temporary, what's long-term, what short term, what that only has a 5% chance of happening? And I'm like, okay, well I only had a 12% chance of getting breast cancer with a negative BRCA. So you can take that under 5% and just like don't even.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. Okay. I also feel this where it's like probabilities do not matter to me anymore. It's either there or it's not there.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah. It is yes or no.

Jodi-Ann Burey: That's all it is. It's like well, you have a 2% chance of being completely paralyzed. Well, it's yes or no. It's like, I'm moving or not moving.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Because when you're at-

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah, that 2% it's all too much, sir.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yes. Because when you're in the 2% it happened, right? It didn't matter that it was unlikely.

Lauren Tarpley: There's still 1% of people in this country that are billionaires. I would fucking love that 1%.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I would love to be there.

Lauren Tarpley: Okay. You don't want that 10% that you just brought up. So let's not talk about probabilities and percentages.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yes. I told my surgeon this, when he was telling me about percentages and felt that that was supposed to be reassuring because for me, it's like, I've attended really competitive colleges. And so like, you're looking for schools that accept 10% of the applicants. And so if I'm searching specifically for lower acceptance rates, that means I was like, oh, 10%. Yeah. I'll be in there.

Lauren Tarpley: I want a school that accepts 98% of people applying. And that is where I was accepted, 98% that your 2%.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah, that's my percent.

Lauren Tarpley: Don't come to me because I went to a college that accept 98% of the applicants. You might not like, I didn't have to spell my name right. They were just like you, here's your student number. We don't even know your name.

Jodi-Ann Burey: That cool.

Lauren Tarpley: Come on. I don't think I registered for this class. Ma'am is there a chair?

Jodi-Ann Burey: There's a chair for you. And I think that should be the approach. When it comes to college, do you want to learn? If you want to be there-

Lauren Tarpley: Do you want to learn?[crosstalk 00:10:13]. Just show up. Radiation is going well, the one that it would have anxiety was kind of sending him away. And then also there's a lot of really good stuff online. Especially lately I've found more good things online than bad. Like I've found you and I've found a really good AYA cancer community and their mom community is like very helpful tips, tricks, life hacks, all these things. And one of the reasons why I tried to speak out so much about AYA cancer or just stats and probabilities and 12 and 2% and all the other stuff is that number one, that really doesn't matter. But number two, everybody has got picture in their mind of what they think a cancer patient looks like, right? They're frail, their hair is either in the middle or falling out or growing back.

Lauren Tarpley: So you're either patches or you look like Doug and I'm referring to myself. Don't want anybody getting your own feelings. I'm literally talking about my own scalp. I look like Doug a few months ago. And then before that I looked like Angelica's little doll for a rug rats with that little hair everywhere is like, my hair's falling out in patches. Then we shaved my head, we shaved it into a Mr. T Mohawk first. So I've had a very serious coming of age looks in the last nine months, been a lot going on, a lot of cartoon characters, a lot of characters.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: But a lot of people have like a picture in their mind and that person is just like super frail they're not having hair. But cancer comes in all different shapes and forms and you also don't have to feel sick to have cancer. So I just like to try to remind people of that. I think that's one of the things which I think I've heard, I've seen, I've spoken to people about, but like even some of my older friends, right? So I'm 35 and one of my girlfriends is like 49. And I said, when was your last mammogram? And she was like, when I was 40 and I was like, oh, okay, well-

Jodi-Ann Burey: You're no child.

Lauren Tarpley: We'll, that is a bravo answer ma'am.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: And she was like, because of you, I am going to go. And I'm like, yeah, like that's cool. But it shouldn't be because me, you're almost 50. She was like scared. And I'm like, I get that. But let me break this down for you really, really quick. And then we'll get back to drinking. Because like I wouldn't turn away my happy hour time bucket.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yes. Come on. I came here to turn up not give you a health advice. Great. Like I mean, I am trying to keep everybody alive, but I am going to drop this little nugget. Then I'm going to get back to my, I don't know lamb lollipops. I don't like my food being cold. I like hot food.

Lauren Tarpley: I can finally taste now, chemo took away my sense of taste. I have everything in sight.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: So I just said, it's going to be worse if there is something in there and you waited nine years and now there's nothing they can do for you.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: It's not out of sight out of mind. It's not one of those things. And unless you're like poppy and you're just ready to go and you just want that cancer to take you, you're like Calgon take you away, then you need to do, what you need to do to keep that from happening? So a lot of people do not stay up on their screenings, which kind of blows my mind.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: But then again, it was like, the people who are diagnosed are going to stay on top of their screenings because I stay at the doctor and we found the cancer.

Jodi-Ann Burey: On this side of it. That's the same response that I give to people too. Like, come on, you need to go. This is important. When it comes to cancer, the best defense that you have, and there are many phenomenal defenses, but the best defense that you have is time.

Lauren Tarpley: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jodi-Ann Burey: The more you don't know, the more you don't go, you're hurting yourself. You're hurting your chances potentially because at least for me, I had a very slow growing tumor and some people that I talked to it's in the matter of days that they have to have some type of action. And there's a sense that I get it. Like after I saw the tumor, I was doing things like kind of like, oh, I'll go through the appointment and whatever. But I kept having these quiet moments where I'm like, I mean, maybe it'll just go away.

Lauren Tarpley: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Just this quickly or slowly as a game. Maybe it'll just like go.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Like it's a cyst or something like, oh, maybe I'll just like go away. And I think people are afraid of what happened to us, which is once you know something, you have to do something and that doing could change the trajectory of your life.

Lauren Tarpley: It will. It's going to be.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. Nobody wants that. But you know what also changes the trajectory of your life?

Lauren Tarpley: Death.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Death.

Lauren Tarpley: Just waking up dead in your dirty ass bed.

Jodi-Ann Burey: It's like you got to get your house in order.

Lauren Tarpley: And that's what you're going to say, right? Waking up dead.

Jodi-Ann Burey: You wake up in time and just take your last. I want to talk about being a younger person that is experiencing cancer diagnosis because I think you're right. Right? When people think about cancer, when you think about sickliness, it's that older? It's the frail, it's the almost like, oh yeah, of course this person is in their seventies or this person's in their sixties and they're facing some health crisis right now when you're just like, just busting out a 30 and kind of living your life. You're not really thinking about that on the menu of possibilities for what's going to happen in the next 10 years. And so what I'm curious for you, it's like, before you were diagnosed, what would your response be to someone who says something along the lines of like, you're never too young for cancer? Do you feel like that's something that we know, like we actually understand what that means before we go through it.

Lauren Tarpley: As humans, if you have not been touched by cancer. Like my mom is the second youngest of seven. My dad is the oldest of four, but my parents are the same age. Right. It's not like that's kind of weird to like, my other grandparents are 20 years older than my other grandparents.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: But my parents are the same age, like my mom's 60. So like my grandpa just died. He was 95. Like my grandma, when she died, she was in her eighties. But she would have been 93.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: And my family is huge. And so I have experienced cancer from a very young age. My parents tried to protect us from it as much as they could like, oh, so-and-so is just sick or they're tired or their treatment or they're going to bounce back things like that. So I think that, and there are people who are our age, who have never, ever, ever, and this blows my whole mind, who has never had anything bad happen to them. And when I speak bad, I don't mean a hangover. I don't mean bullet wound. I don't mean you blew out your flip flop. I don't mean a broken heel. I'm not talking about UTI. Like that's not a fucking bad day. Okay.

Jodi-Ann Burey: UTI is a rough though, but I hear what you're saying.

Lauren Tarpley: Some people are 35 and 40 and have never lost a grandparent. Like it blows my mind that like my best friend's grandma was alive and I'm like, more than anything, I wish my grandma was alive because she's one of the only other people in my family who had breast cancer, even though my BRCA is negative, we had two different kinds, but we are going through the same treatment plan. And so it would be nice to like talk to her about that and whatever. But I just think that as a society, if someone was like, oh, Hey, like to your question, no, I don't think that a lot of people in our age group are mentally there because that level of tragedy or shock, or just whatever adjective or word you want to use for however you feel like when you're personally diagnosed, a lot of people haven't felt that yet.

Lauren Tarpley: Those are feelings our parents have felt because they've lost their parent or they've lost their sibling because our parents are 50, 60, 70, 80, you know what I mean? And so, no. Unfortunately enough, I have two close friends who were diagnosed with breast cancer in their very early thirties. They're both five and six years in remission now. But like when I called them, they remembered everything. They gave me a whole download. It was a little overwhelming, but they gave me the whole rundown from like diagnosis to where they were five years past being cured.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: I think a lot of people are just in denial. And then I think a lot of people hang on people like news they like, right.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: Like you like when you hear what you want to hear.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Oh yeah, that feels great.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah. Like the infographic, I saw the other day when I found out that my chances of getting breast cancer before the age of 70 was 12%. If I had seen that two years ago, and then also just gotten my genetic test, I would have been like, this is all the information I need, because this is all the CDC.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: The American Cancer Society, all of the information that all of the powers that be all the authorities that lie, like they have said, I do not have cancer. My BRCA was negative. My cancer is 12%. I'm healthy. I work out every day, I eat a ton of vegetables. I just had a bit... I had a baby, like it was nothing like first chance, labor took three days. Who's doesn't like, you know what I'm saying?

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: Like, I'm healthy. Like I go to the doctor every 90 days. So without my mammogram, which is like the other part of that picture, if you want to even call it like a three-part picture, your mammogram, your BRCA, and then the statistics.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: Ensure that's the complete picture, but just the statistics of what has happened on people who were eating food that wasn't GMO, people who were eating foods that have new pesticides in them, like for you to tell me I'm BRCA and negative. And I have a different cancer than my grandmother means it is environmental. Like there's no other explanation for that. And so that's just a really... That's a really big bummer. And that's like one of the biggest realizations that I've come to in the last, like nearly year of dealing with all of this.

Jodi-Ann Burey: How would you describe it? Like, what did it feel like to you to be in your early thirties? Kind of navigating this? Because for me, I got diagnosed at 32 and like, listen, the body was tight.

Lauren Tarpley: Right.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Crop tops for days, right. I had a good job. Like I was feeling good. I had several months of depression because I was dating a man child. And that impacted me in a really deep way. But all of that aside, I was actually like on the up from that, like when I was diagnosed and I was like super excited, springtime was on the rise and it was, my birthday was in a couple days, like I had a snowboarding trip planned and like all this kind of stuff. And then this drops in my lap.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Like I had tickets to, I was going to Malawi. Then I was going to Geneva because I had a work thing. And then after Geneva was going to go to the Alps, I was snowboarding for a couple of days. I was so excited about, especially because I was dealing with the depression, like reentering my life.

Lauren Tarpley: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jodi-Ann Burey: And then to feel like I had to not just spend, like in my brain, I thought was going to be like a couple of weeks. Oh, surgery, boom power lets go. My surgeon really sat down and he's like, this is going to change the trajectory of your life. And I'm like, so extra doctor was like, that was a lot.

Lauren Tarpley: Right.

Jodi-Ann Burey: But it did, I was not working for four months. I was in the hospital for almost a month. I had to relearn how to walk. I relearned how to use my hands. I like felt like shit.

Lauren Tarpley: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jodi-Ann Burey: And I felt from 32 until 34 plus and 35 now like you, I was just like, this is trash to be a young person who is still in this place of these like societal milestones of possibilities for your life. I felt stalled. Like I felt like I had to go backwards while my peers who are in this time of accelerating in their careers, starting families, buying houses and all these great exciting kind of life grounding things. I could not participate in that. And it's just like this, loss of possibility and potential and-

Lauren Tarpley: Oh, yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey: ... and like, that's kind of what I was navigating, like doing this at 30. And there's no time that is good to be dealing with cancer navigating all of this in my thirties was just absolute by [inaudible 00:24:04].

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey: What is it like for you?

Lauren Tarpley: I mean, it's very similar, and I think that's the biggest thing about AYA cancer patients, right? I was having a conversation with one of my friends and I feel like it's definitely harder, AYA is 15 to 39.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: And so if you let's say, God forbid, you're 19, which happens and you're diagnosed with breast cancer. Right. And they're like, okay. So by the way, the recommended time between being diagnosed and you reaching out to an endocrinologist to talk about your treatment and what it'll do to your fertility, they recommend you do that in 24 hours after diagnosis.

Jodi-Ann Burey: So imagine me 19. And you're like, all right. So do you think you want a child? Because if you want a child, we need to know this and within 24 hours.

Lauren Tarpley: Oh, and it will be $25,000. Thank you. All right. I'll tell you where you can take that. When I was 19, I was like, I am a child. It was like the hangover. It was like, he might look like a man, but he's a baby like that, like I am a child. Like I was a job that I am child, still a child to be young for this bullshit. So like I said, I think about younger people, being diagnosed at 34, I mean you're 100% correct. That is the prime of anyone's life. We spoke about high school. You kind of figure it out. You kind of think, you know who you are in middle school, then you definitely pretty much figured out in high school, then you try to implement the things that make you, you in college.

Lauren Tarpley: And then you try to find your group and your people and lifelong friends. Then you get out of college. And if you're like me, no one wants to date you because... And then you don't find anybody until you 28, old as fuck and your eggs are dusty anyway. So then you have a baby at 33 and then you're just trying to go to the gyno and like get the green check and your gold star. So you can have another little dusty egg baby, because now I'm 35. And then they're like, oh, okay, sure. You can have a little dusty baby. And we'll be here when that doesn't work out. And not dusty-

Jodi-Ann Burey: Dusty egg.

Lauren Tarpley: ... dusty egg.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Your baby is not dusty, your eggs old.

Lauren Tarpley: My baby is not dusty but my eggs are powdered. So we'll leave it.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I'm done. I can't deal with this.

Lauren Tarpley: But you know it sucks because you thought you just needed to take some steps back like dead ass for me, I felt like when I was diagnosed, they put up a brick wall overnight between the biopsy and them calling me, they built a brick wall and I was still driving. So when they called me and they said, you have cancer, I crashed into that brick wall. What do you want me to do with this information? What am I supposed to do with that? Like I 80% agree with you, totally talking percentages. Like the whole-

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah, well talk about percentages the whole time.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah, for real they're like, everyone is doing these things. I don't care what timeline anyone else is doing things on. But you are on this trajectory when you're in your thirties. Like that whole meme that's going around. I don't know if they're like, how much better are your thirties than your twenties? And then I think somebody started how much better are your forties than your thirties. And you're like, I just don't give a fuck.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: Like I don't care and you don't, once you hit your thirties, like whether it's 31 or 35, you realize what your personal priorities are. If you want to travel the world, you start putting those things into motion. If you want to have a baby by yourself with your dio, you start putting those things into motion. If you never want to have a baby, you go get fixed. That's perfectly awesome and fine, please, everybody like, if you ever think about wanting a kid, and I love my kid more than life, just go to the zoo. If you never want to baby, because there are kids running around.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I can't deal with you.

Lauren Tarpley: And so just if you don't want kids, if you think you want to just go to the zoo.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Or hang out in the airport. I've bet. I've seen marriages fall apart at terminal gates.

Lauren Tarpley: Oh, yeah, terminal three. I mean, I've seen people like call somebody an IKEA, so IKEA the zoo, the airport, that's it. Those are relationship tests.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: That's rude. But yeah, just being diagnosed and the thing is, is like, no one in my family has ever been diagnosed so early.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: You know black people on television.

Jodi-Ann Burey: They don't see anything. [crosstalk 00:28:59] You know she's sick Mom.

Lauren Tarpley: Mom.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: I need my family history. The doctor asks.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: I'm not writing a blog about it. Or like telling Sally, your friend who's like-

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. I need it on my record.

Lauren Tarpley: I need it for my record.

Jodi-Ann Burey: When you get a diagnosis like that, when you call your parent, after you tell them or whatever, but the tone in your voice changes when you're like, I need my family history.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah, right? Bite your bottom lip, like try me.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Try me.

Lauren Tarpley: Linda.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Linda.

Lauren Tarpley: What do you call me Mrs. Mommy.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mrs. Mommy.

Lauren Tarpley: Mrs. Mommy, may I please have my medical record and my birth certificate. I don't have my birth certificate.

Jodi-Ann Burey: At what point in your life are you supposed to hand those back to your kids?

Lauren Tarpley: Pretty sure it's in her like death binder.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Her death binder.

Lauren Tarpley: I'm dead, here's your birth certificate. Get everything together for you.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: Just like everything. I think my birth certificate is page one and then she'll be like, now you finally have the old birth certificate there.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Oh my God. A couple of years ago my mom's started releasing some things. Like she gave me my very first passport, which I did not think about. Like, of course this thing exists, but as I was wanting to make it, so I have a Jamaican passport, one stamp in it, which is the date that we migrated to United States. And like, you can see her fingers holding me up in the passport photo. Like she gave that to me a couple of years ago and I knew this existed. Because I remember seeing in high school, but there's like a little name plate bracelet that has my first name on it that I had when I was an infant.

Lauren Tarpley: Oh, that's so cute.

Jodi-Ann Burey: So I have it. And it hangs on the neck of like this little statue that I have. It's so small.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey: This used to be around my wrists. Yeah. So I like, I love having those things, but I mean, you know what listen, I still live in a studio apartment. I don't have a house. I totally get that she's not trying to like give me important things. Because I'm still moving.

Lauren Tarpley: But they're mine.

Jodi-Ann Burey: But they're mine.

Lauren Tarpley: Like I mean that.

Jodi-Ann Burey: No, yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: Like government-

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah, you're right.

Lauren Tarpley: I'm waiting for her to like ask me for my VAX card back. No, I have a safe here too. Like I'm an adult. And I feel like my mom looks at me like that 14 year old, I kept forgetting her jacket at school.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: She won't [crosstalk 00:31:35].

Jodi-Ann Burey: No, that is a fact, but I think that's what makes it even more difficult to be like still a younger person navigating cancer and how your family sees your people in your life. So you who've known you for a long time. Because you just like, how do you have cancer? Like you just lost your tooth yesterday. And you're like-

Lauren Tarpley: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jodi-Ann Burey: ... no, I'm older. So I can navigate this with some level of decision-making. But also I'm still a young person where like, just going through this, it's so traumatizing and difficult to navigate because there are still first experiences.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey: But again, like the sense that like you're too young for cancer or that the cancer came too soon. It's just like, you have no idea what cancer is then. Like, it just shows up. And it can show up in your body for all different types of reasons. But doesn't necessarily have like a date on it of when it's most appropriate for you to have cancer.

Lauren Tarpley: Cancer gives zero fucks.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Oh yeah. Cancer dont give a fuck. Gets on your nerve.

Lauren Tarpley: Let me ask you this about your parents though. Like when you had to tell your mom and your parents, like, do you think they felt guilty?

Jodi-Ann Burey: That's deep. I called my mom and told her.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey: She had her own process that, I wasn't exposed to. She did tell me a little bit about it, but if I know my mom, I would be shocked if she did not have a line of thought of blaming herself.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah. I think that any parent.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Any parent, because you're giving them the genetic material and because I had to get a family history. My grandmother, her mom died of cancer and several of her sisters. So my mom's one of 10, five girls, five boys of the five of them. Not including my mom, which again, because people keep secrets. I have no idea if my mom has navigated like some type of cancer in some way, but of the five of them, many of my aunts have had some type of removal of reproductive organs. Right. Or navigated breast cancer over your like, again, like trying to find a history is tough, but they've navigated that I have a couple of uncles who've navigated that. And I don't think that's evident on my dad's side. So I would be shocked if my mom was like, I did this, I think any parent would do that.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I mean, how about your parents?

Lauren Tarpley: And I do just want to touch on this because I'm not quite sure how often people do talk about this, but like my whole gambit, my whole thing is AYA cancers and racial disparities in medicine. That's my platform. That's what I like to talk about. Preach, educate people on things like that. And when it comes to the black community, not trusting doctors, I get it. Not trusting government, I damn sure get it for multiple reasons. We don't want to be poked, prodded, experimented on any further anymore.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: Like the Tuskegee's experiments, all those things. So that's again, why black people, aren't very forthcoming then to have the majority of our life records, our birth records, our family records burned intentionally. So we do not have a lineage or so we don't have any kind of history to refer back to you and things like that. So I think that honestly is the egg of the chicken where the racial disparities and the inequities began in medicine. I can't answer your question. I don't know what my great, great grandmother did. She was a slave. That's what I know. I can only pray that she was treated as good as you can be, but that's what I know. I'm sorry, I don't have that information because we're from East, North Carolina and that's one of the worst, you know what I mean? Like it's just that much.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah. So this is all deep seated and you know, it goes back pretty far with us. Like not having a ton of records and why black people don't divulge things. And then that's another reason why one of the things I like to do is destigmatize cancer in young people, again with the photo shoot when I was in the middle of chemo and I've got my bald head and I get so many messages and people are like, I can't believe you put your bald head on the internet. I was like, I'm pretty sure there is pictures of an asshole on the internet. So my bald head is like really not even that serious. I lived a very crazy 20s, so don't even get to that.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. Listen, I survived Four Loko.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah. That boat Four Loko and I made it home. I was with people who didn't know what-

Jodi-Ann Burey: Or I'm asked on the internet somewhere.

Lauren Tarpley: I have no idea. The thing is, what I love is that my husband and my parents know like all this. So I'm like, I don't care. So I told my mom because like, and my parents are still together, all that stuff. They watch my son. So I see them at least three times a week. Like my parents have been together for almost 40 years. So like they have their own language. And like when there's bad news from my mom's side of the family and my mom has to share to my dad or vice versa, they have a way they like to communicate. It was really hard when I first got diagnosed because my dad's sister has stage four cervical cancer. My grandfather just passed in July from bladder cancer. And then now your daughter has breast cancer.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: And that was the hardest part.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Like all generations.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: And that was the hardest part for me to be diagnosed. Because number one, I felt for my dad, like I was scared for my parents. Like I just didn't want to let them down. I didn't want to let them down again. I didn't want to let my family down. Like you can't, you go get your nose pierced and then your parents are like, you don't need more holes in your face, go and get a tattoo my dad's like, do it again and I'll cut it off you. Like, you know what I mean? Like just stop embarrassing yourself, stop being stupid in your 20s. And so you do the right thing. I find a guy that like, I love, they love, we have a baby that everyone loves and I'm like on the up and up. And I'm like trying to fix these mistakes. So I'm still trying to work on repairing all of the little things I did.

Jodi-Ann Burey: And I'm trying to make up for what happened when I was 16.

Lauren Tarpley: Exactly. And so then I just, everyday I live in my promotions, the way I raise my son, the way we live our life, like the reason why we still live less than 10 miles from each of our parents is to make them happy to make them proud of us.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: I just felt like with this one phone call that I just disappointed them. Like I have breast cancer and my mom had questions and I'm like, I have zero answers, but I would really like for you to go to the doctor with me. And when we did the genetic testing and came back that I was BRCA negative. Not only was I so excited once I figured out what that meant, because the first doctor was such an asshole, she didn't really explain it to me, but that told us that it wasn't hereditary. And so then, I felt like that released my parents from that. And that made me so happy.

Lauren Tarpley: Like, I don't know why, but I still try to make people feel so comfortable around me when I tell them, or they find out like, oh my, I'm like, oh yeah, like I'd be doing a podcast because I never stopped while I was in chemo. Right. And I'd be doing a podcast. And on one of chip came in here and took my hat off. And I was like, oh, I didn't know you were bald. Like, I saw it's all your pictures. And I was like, oh yeah, I have that cancer. And like, she just started like bawling crying. And he's like 80 years old.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: And then I'm like I'm 34, it's stage two. Like, God forbid, I hope it never comes back. But I actually feel pretty good. I'm working out like, Lauren is bald. Like, I've still do it. But I try to make everyone feels so comfortable. And I don't know why I do that.

Jodi-Ann Burey: That sound so exhausting like you're asking me if my parents feel guilty. The genetic testing, you feel released your parents from that guilt, but then did you turn it on yourself? Like, it's my fault that I have cancer or you're trying to like-

Lauren Tarpley: Oh, no.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Okay. So like, how has that experience for you?

Lauren Tarpley: I mean, that was my first question. I went in super prepared. I'm type a guide to cancer. It's going to be type a all day.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: So then when it was my time to go, I went in with like a literal legal pad full of questions.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Oh, yeah. I had a little book that said tumor journal on it and I was like, all right, let's know, like a little mole scheme.

Lauren Tarpley: Tumor journal?

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. More journal. Okay, let's discuss.

Lauren Tarpley: Exactly. You start from the beginning, sir. When was cancer invented? I need to know everything.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I'll be here all day.

Lauren Tarpley: We'll be here all day. I've already clocked in. So don't you worry about how long this is taking? Thank you. I'm going to need all the answers, but no. When we got there, that was the first question, did birth control cause this? And the doctor, even though, like I said, I did not care for her. I had two appointments with her and I found a new surgeon immediately. But she was like, no, you are HER2+, your hormone receptor negative. So like that means literally birth control did not cause this, this literally means having a baby did not cause this, this hurt 5% of breast cancer patients are HER2+ hormone receptor negative 5% again with the statistics.

Lauren Tarpley: And it's the second, most aggressive cancer next to triple negative. And that's the thing too, right? So like I've been getting mammograms since I was 30 and then skipped one year. So this was my fourth one. This was my third or fourth mammogram. And I know exactly when I got my last one. So in 16 months, the cancer became stage two grade three and was already in my lymph nodes in 16 months. If I had listened to again, the American Cancer Society.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: All that stuff, I would not have made it. I wouldn't have made it to 37, 16 months stage two grade three, very aggressive cancer. I was already at five centimeters in 16 months. Like, what is that? Another 16 months it's 10 centimeters. That's at least stage three. You have to advocate for yourself. You have to know when something doesn't feel right in your gut, like in your heart of hearts. And you're like the way he's telling you something you're like no, I'm sorry, that's not right. I'm going to go get a check. Don't worry about it. I'm going to get checked out.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. My personal trainer, a couple of weeks ago, he asked me, he's like, how did you know? Like, and I'm like, and it was so out of context. Because I hadn't done the podcast episode in a while. I was like, what are you talking about? And he's like, how did you know to like keep going back to the doctor or like ask for these tests and whatever. And I'm just sitting with family. You have to believe yourself more than anything.

Lauren Tarpley: And anyone.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Any white coat, any MD, any test result. Because I received a lot of test results are like, oh, there's nothing here. There's nothing here. There's nothing here. And I'm like, you have to believe yourself fundamentally more than anything.

Lauren Tarpley: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jodi-Ann Burey: That's how you get through stuff like this. That's how you got through life. Especially as a woman of color.

Lauren Tarpley: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jodi-Ann Burey: You have to believe yourself more than anything.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah. I saw a thing that said, like protect our black women. And as a black woman, I was like, well, I don't know if I feel like I need protecting. And then literally 30 minutes later, I was like, yeah, the fuck I do. I definitely need protecting. We are not listened to, we're not heard. Like we do need protecting. And you know like going through this and handpicking my medical team and interviewing doctors, which you are allowed to do, you're allowed to get second and third opinions and you should not be charged for the second and third opinions that should be included in your insurance. So call them and be annoying because then they will approve your things speaking from experience. But really though, like you are allowed to go and get second, third opinions. And I'm not just saying, because you don't want to do chemo and you don't want to lose your hair, but like get different points of view.

Lauren Tarpley: And if you're going to read studies, ask them how many people look like you in the study? How many people were black women? How many people were even women of color? Where was this study done? So I know before I got my MRI results that they were thinking about changing the drug I was on for immunotherapy. And I had a very visceral reaction to them telling me they wanted to change my drug because for the last six, seven months, we've had plans since day one. And for you to just say like, oh, well this is kind of a newer drug that strike one. No, no, no, no, no. A very aggressive kind of cancer that not a lot of people have. How many people were in the study? 500, I don't. I've never even heard of a study of 100 people. That's a smattering. That's a party.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: 500 people is not a study. How many people were black, 17 strike two. You can even have like an even percentage. Can I get like five, 10%? We're like, I mean, we just had a bunch of white people line up. And like, that's why you do genetic testing because clearly our bodies are not exactly the same. Like younger black women are diagnosed with more aggressive breast cancers than older black woman or even younger or older white women. The second largest group that's diagnosed with aggressive cancers is Asian and Pacific Islanders and native person. Because I don't think this was for us. Like I don't think the answer was for us, and I think we ate the food and we drank the drink and we did the stuff and a few generations later, like I've got cancer at 34 because I'm supposed to be sitting on the throne in Namibia right now. I'm not supposed to be living in suburbia, Charleston, South Carolina, where we're still trying to get the name of plantations taken off of neighborhoods that weren't plantations like-

Jodi-Ann Burey: Wow.

Lauren Tarpley: We'll come up.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I mean, it does a lot. Because like, when the time of this recording is a couple of weeks after the Derek Chauvin trial, couple of weeks after Ma'Khia Bryant was murdered. And I remember thinking about that case and I just couldn't let go of this idea of like, I just want to be seen as somebody who should be helped or could be helped.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey: And I think that ripples throughout all aspects of our lives, as people of color, whether it's like calling the police, if you actually need help or wanting to study what happens in our body. So we can set screening norms that understand that, black and Asian women, other women of color get more aggressive cancers earlier.

Lauren Tarpley: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jodi-Ann Burey: Think about a lot of folks who die of cancers before you were even supposed to be screened for it. I think that's the level of anxiety that I have around young folks with cancer is that these things are showing up in your body before anybody was even looking for it.

Lauren Tarpley: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jodi-Ann Burey: And that's the part that's scary where it makes me feel like I have to be hypervigilant about what's happening to me because no one's checking for me. Nobody's looking out for me. So I have to look out for myself.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey: And I think that is really challenging to navigate, but I want to transition here as we think about like how to make decisions for yourself, despite what's happening around you or what people are influencing you to do. You've mentioned this a couple of times, but having a young child, getting the news around your cancer and needing to make decisions about your family planning within 24 hours, like how did they broach your fertility options? And what was the tipping point for you in determining whether you're going to pursue options for having another child in the future? Or if you were going to give that up.

Lauren Tarpley: Even when I felt abandoned and totally alone, I had to like sit down and check myself in probably about 15 seconds later. I felt good always.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: I had gone to my annual in May and got the green light and the check, to start having second baby. And then I was diagnosed in September, but the mammograms, MRIs and biopsies started in July. So when I was diagnosed with cancer, my very first appointment was with an oncological surgeon. And the same day I got in with my oncologist and I have the same questions for both of them, because I wanted to see how their opinions differed with what I was looking for. So again, I wasn't looking for the answer I was looking for. I was looking for the answer that made sense to me and for the person that answered my question fully to where I understood it.

Lauren Tarpley: Not in doctor speak, not in clinical speak, not reading my pathology report to me talking to me like a human or like your wife who was just diagnosed with cancer. And you are literally in the middle of your life, because hopefully I'm not even in the middle of my life, but I'm in the middle of my life. We literally were trying to have a baby the week before. And then now you're telling me, we don't know what kind of cancer you have. We don't know if you have to wait 1, 3, 5, 10 years. There are people who have a kind of breast cancer or an ovarian cancer, cervical cancer, where if you're on hormone therapy, you have to wait 10 years. That's insane to me. And that will derail you so much. So being diagnosed, when my son was 17 months old, that was really hard for me because we knew we wanted additional children.

We always wanted at least a family of four or five, but what would hit me the hardest was thinking about leaving Trey and Chip before I was finished. There's no way I'm not done with this seven, eight. He's like on my screen right now. I'm not done with the 17 month old. You know what I mean? Like I could not imagine, that's my worst fear is leaving him. Number one, but leaving him where I feel I've left him ill prepared for the world. He's biracial, but you are a black man in America. And there are things that I need to teach you that your dad can't because he's not black in America. And especially today. Because I thought things would be better today than they were in 2003.

Lauren Tarpley: Like I said, that was the scariest part for me was just leaving him and feeling like I was leaving him like ill-prepared not raised. And then also like nobody wants to leave a baby or like, I have a little baby orphan. So that was the hardest part for me. That was the hardest part for me to wrap my head around because it's like, what is the reason for this? Like, how am I going to be able to help people from this? But also like, what is the message? Because I have this baby, like he's not an infant, but he's a baby.

Jodi-Ann Burey: And not to be like that, but like I don't have children. I'm part of the dusty egg powdered eggs crew, like legit. Like I was talking to the doctor some 35 as well. And I was like, I really want to have a baby right now bla, bla, bla, and she's like, I mean, based on what you're trying to do with your life, having a baby at 35 and 37 might not be that big of a difference. You're already a geriatric pregnancy. And I'm like, but yeah, you're right.

Lauren Tarpley: You would have said it in a different way because we all know what the terms are. But like I really-

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah, it was geriatric pregnancy, like what the hell? But you know, I don't have a child, but what comes up for me, please tell me if I'm speaking out of line. I never like speaking about... I don't want to speak about an experience that wasn't mine, but what scares me in your story is leaving a child who wouldn't be able to remember you.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah. That's not out of line at all. Because I mean you, I mean what you start forming lifelong memories like four or five.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: So yeah, like it would be like pictures where you're forcing memories, right?

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: Remember that time we went to the zoo? Yeah, I totally remember. It was like 26 months old and my mom had radiation outlines all over. Like yeah, that's it. Yeah. I didn't think about that part of things a lot.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Oh my God, do you have your tissues?

Lauren Tarpley: No.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Okay.

Lauren Tarpley: I really didn't think about that part, but no that part is 100% true. And then to your part of the question about figuring out IVF and your fertility moving forward. Since we already knew we 100% wanted another kid, in that first meeting. Because again, they were on the same day. I'll never forget. It was a Thursday. I spent almost six hours in two different doctor appointments on the first day. It's a lot of information. It's very overwhelming. Luckily they did talk to me about fertility and options because only 41% of AYA cancer patients get spoken to about their reproductive options and endocrinology. So that's 59% of people. And again, that's what had me thinking about it last week was they might be too young. Like you're already telling a 15 year old they have cancer, right?

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: Maybe you don't want to be like, do you want to do an egg retrieval or would you like us to put your ovary on ice? We'll have to surgically remove it. Like what, I'm 15. I don't know what an ovary is, I'm 15.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: Like honestly they might not even be in the headspace to even make a decision at all. Like yes or no. Maybe I want a cheeseburger, like nothing it's heavy.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: So since we knew we wanted a kid, it was actually kismet because the week before we'd watch the Lance Armstrong documentary on ESPN, like the 30 for 30.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: And learned about his foundation that Livestrong Foundation that helped cancer patients and their fertility. So when I looked at that, they covered all the medicine in the beginning and had a pre approved price, like a flat price with the fertility clinic. And it ended up being the best fertility clinic in Charleston. So that-

Jodi-Ann Burey: God damn, this is why you have to keep watching them.[crosstalk 00:56:03]

Lauren Tarpley: This is why you should always watch TV. This is why you should always be on Instagram that we started on that grant situation too. So we ended up doing it. I ended up having to push chemo back one week to do the full egg retrieval. And we did embryos out of 29 eggs that got all the way down to the fertilized, like glass doors or whatever they're called. We had eight boys and one girl. I was being influenced to having a girl. But then only three of them made it to where they preserve them. So there's three little boys in the freezer, but I had 19 hours to decide and it took us 15 hours just because we didn't know what the end all costs would be. And like, we're very fortunate to where we're just savers.

Lauren Tarpley: So we had the money, but you've got doctors telling you, if you kind of want an insurance plan, like you kind of should do it, but the drugs you're going to be on really shouldn't affect your fertility at all. All right. Here's the deal. When you say really shouldn't affect, then that means you have no idea. And once this is done, it's done. Like if I go have three popsicles babies and then everything is messed up afterwards than it is what it is. But if I didn't do IVF and I'm infertile because there's a million ways you can be infertile after chemo in the cancer treatment. And then it is what it is at that point. You and I, and now I've got to explore a whole different range of options with surrogacy and egg donors and things like that. And so I'll say the doctors that I've had, they were very clear.

It's just endocrinology and reproductive science is so new-ish and also it's very niche. And it's like where they, the one thing I really just don't care for about it as a whole is that it's like the vet there harping on your emotions. I'm just that there, like they're pulling on their heartstrings. If you could go in there and they're like your dog's toenail is infected and the antibiotics for that is $2,000 or he's going to lose that leg now, are you going to be a terrible dog mom? Or you're going to buy these $2,000 antibiotics? And it's just like that. It's like, do you want a baby? Because their cost $25 000.

Jodi-Ann Burey: 25. I have a friend who's going through right now. And she gives me regular updates about her process. And she has to go down to the specialist that's in another state and this and that and that and things that she's had to work out with equity in her house and get the money to do. And I'm like, holy hell. I'm six years younger than her, again, all geriatric pregnancy types. And it's just like when it comes to making decisions about fertility, it does not seem easy to navigate. Cancer is not easy to navigate. Fertility options are not easy to navigate and to be able to have to navigate those two things at the same time is, like there's no good time for cancer to enter your life. And like so many things can complicate your process. But when you're talking about probabilities again around what could happen to your body, what can happen to your family? I mean, thank God for Livestrong, to be able to open up some options for you too.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah. And there's quite a few organizations that do help nationwide. I've read a lot of Breasties out in Texas and there's think called Mission Chicks. But their logos, like little chicken, like little baby chickens, but they help out a lot. But yeah, it's a lot to decide and it's a heavy decision and they're like, you wouldn't be here if you didn't want a baby. And then also what really blows my mind is that after everything we got the 29 eggs that went all the way through the process and today, we have three in the freezer. What I never thought of was if none of them made it right? I never thought that would be thing.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: Because it's a controlled environment. They're getting the eggs from you. They're fertilizing them somewhere else or keeping them cooled or keeping them warm. I don't know what they need to do. I don't know if they're like baby chickens, living in incubator. I don't know what they do. That's why I, again, I'm an infant endocrinologist.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Less than a Doc McStuffins.

Lauren Tarpley: Yes. I know much, but I never imagined that there would be zero. And there are people who get zero embryos or just it's things like that. And you still have to pay all the money.

Jodi-Ann Burey: You pay thousands of dollars and could still end up with nothing.

Lauren Tarpley: If there's no embryos, if there's no lifers, like you have to pay and that's not fair. That's not right. I came for a baby and I'm leaving here with a baby.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Money back guaranteed.

Lauren Tarpley: Figure it out.

Jodi-Ann Burey: [crosstalk 01:01:26]

Lauren Tarpley: Right. You believe so much in your endocrinologist knowledge, you would have a money back guarantee.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Make a person. I did all my things. You took my things. You took my husband's things. Like make me a person.

Lauren Tarpley: Please make me a person. Like I could not imagine everything worked out.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: But that's why we chose. That's how we chose. And it was not an easy decision, and they say, don't look at it like an insurance policy, but we just kind of wanted to try to hedge our bets because this came out of nowhere. Like it's really? Yeah. The fertility part was like a really messed up part.

Jodi-Ann Burey: But do you feel like, as you're trying to navigate cancer, you're navigating your dynamic with your husband and the family planning, you're navigating fertility and that whole process. And as you're going through chemotherapy, you yourself, you start to change. Like, do you feel like you Lauren like get lost in all of that? Like you lose yourself somewhere.

Lauren Tarpley: I've totally lost myself.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: Not because of any... I just lost myself because I don't recognize myself. Like when I look at old pictures, some of them I'm like, oh, that's me. And then some of them I'm like, there's no soul in that picture. I'm not there.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: I'm here. My pictures I take now I'm here. But that part is wild. Like I don't recognize her.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: The smile is like, what is that smile? Because you look way too happy because she's so honest to me. Like I remember in January when I posted like a happy anniversary to my husband, it was like one of the last pictures we took before you head inside and like go eat and stuff. And I was like, in that minute, in that moment, like when that shutter clicked like that, I was literally so happy because it's like the same thing you were talking about before that trajectory. It's like, everything's going too well. And I'm like, in that minute, like that moment was just so perfect. Like sunset on my wedding day that I never thought would happen in a dress that I was snatched and like all these things.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yes.

Lauren Tarpley: But navigating it, I'm one of those people that I like to take everything on. I like to reorganize it myself. I like to reprioritize it and it will all get done. Like I said, I started my podcast, like in the middle of August, I had released two episodes before I was diagnosed. And I was like, what am I going to do? So I was like, well, I'm going to keep doing this until I can't do it anymore.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: So I had the podcast, I had the cancer, I had my full-time job. I have a kid, I got the husband, I've got to clean the house, got to manage the house. And I think for me, the biggest thing that helped was just staying incredibly busy because the minute I've sat down or looked at myself in the mirror, I would either think about death or my impending death, or when it was coming, or why is this happening? But if I'm busy, I was totally fine. Like, people were like, wow, you're handling this really well. Wow. You're so strong. And it's like at 8:30, I'm going to completely write down.[crosstalk 01:05:09]

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. When I was navigating my stuff, at short-term disability leave from a job that was absolutely incredible supportive, like showed up for me, ways that my own friends did not show up for me.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey: If you're going to go through a life crisis, this is a place that you want to work. And a couple of months after I got back, I had to resign because I was in such a dark place that like, I remember I was in this meditation and for the 20 minutes of that meditation, I was like drafting suicide letter. I had too much space in my life to have your mind kind of go into these dark corners. And so I left that job to work at a startup, which startup culture is like, go, go, go. And this and that and that. And like, you're working so many hours. I started a startup, I got a dog. Like I just busied myself so much. And then people look at you, like you're saying like, oh, you're so strong. You're so this or whatever. And like, this is a trauma response. Like what my life looks like, what looks like successful or whatever to you or me keeping it all together. Like, this is how I'm trying to navigate through my trauma. Like, I'm actually not okay.

Lauren Tarpley: It's high functioning anxiety like-

Jodi-Ann Burey: Very high functioning anxiety. Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: Like when I read that about my... Because my therapist that it's me, like my oncological therapist, she was like, that's a trauma response. And this is high functioning anxiety. And I'm like, yeah, but my house is clean. And like-

Jodi-Ann Burey: My house is clean.

Lauren Tarpley: My house is clean, my freezer is full of baked goods. And she was like, yeah. And when you sit down, do you get sad? And I was like, no, because I drink. And she was like, don't do that.

Jodi-Ann Burey: The alcohol, hello.

Lauren Tarpley: Let them please stop up doing that. But yeah, it's a trauma response and it's high functioning society. And I'm like, well you're not raised to think that that was like success in home.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Oh, yeah. Like, that's good. Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: Yes. You don't want to be lazy. You don't want to be wallowing around in a bed. That's not made or a floor that's not swept.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Like get up you have to keep going, come on. This is going to like jumpstart you. And it's like, well, I'm doing the stuff. But it's like, when people say like fake it till you make it, like I'm faking this, but I don't feel like I'm making it anywhere. Like there's a photo that I have on my website with me and Stacey Abrams. Because I introduced her for an event and got to interview her for a little bit. And that is like the thing that people get super excited about when they see my work, which is why it's on my website. But when I look at that photo, I look at a vacant person, right?

Jodi-Ann Burey: Like I remember being on stage talking to the smartest person, like ever and feeling so distressed because I don't recognize my body. I'm dealing with all this neuropathy. I can't feel my feet. What if I do, like all this stuff would have asked to the bathroom and I'm sitting up here, can I hold it. The only thing going through my head are like neuropathy management type stuff or just kind of going through the motions. But when I look back at that photo, I don't really see myself there. I just see like an interpretation of me.

Lauren Tarpley: A shell. I just see a shell.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: And it's not even bad. Like I feel like some people hear that or like listening, they'll hear that. And they'll be really be stunned, and it's nice. To me it's not sad. I died on September 4th, like I die.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: She's dead. I feel like I'm a better person. I feel like I'm a more patient person for sure.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Oh my God. Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: I can feel and see the difference in the way that I parent and I'm grateful and thankful for that Chip and I do daily affirmation every single morning with our alphabet A is for awesome. B is for black and beautiful, like all that stuff. Like now that I get to work from home permanently, I get three hours back a day with him. Like, I mean, yeah, cancer sucks. But I've just been trying to find every silver lining I can and rip that out of there and-

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: And that's that. But like I said, when I just look at... I feel like I literally was already on my way to becoming like a good and better person, because I was like mothering this child. I mean, and there's a certain level of selflessness that comes into play. Like when you have a kid and then we were planning on having another one. That's a whole nother level of selflessness, like when you're planning and if you don't plan your kid's cool, good for you. Like you're not going to be stressed and pissing on everything. Like I am around here, like finding a rabbit and making sure I'm pregnant. I don't have diabetes. They're like Lauren, there are pregnancy tests, you are way too country put the bunny away. I can't.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Did you dream about fish?

Lauren Tarpley: I know, right? Like never had a dream about fish. I was being selfless and my marriage is a priority. My job is a priority, having a clean house was a priority on the up and up. And then this happened. And when I look back, the only thing I have is the pictures. You know what I mean? Honestly, don't really recognize myself out of a ton of them because again, she's so unaware. And then for one second, I'm usually like, is that the beer that caused... Is that the wine that caused it, was it me not getting enough sleep, was me being stressed about getting this new job, like this girl, like the things that she's doing, did she cause this? And I'm like, it's not her fault. It's no one's fault.

Lauren Tarpley: And then I gave him that minute for like a second or two and then I'm finished. I've never felt more myself than now, even bald as a jaybird. Bald like a little jaybird. I mean, I would say the second hardest day I've ever had was like, after that photo shoot in December, and I was just like walking past. I was like coming out of my closet and going in the bedroom. I was walking past the bathroom and I literally, I was like, I don't recognize that woman she's bald, she's 40 pounds heavier. She's wearing my clothes, which you shouldn't because you're 40 pounds heavier.

Jodi-Ann Burey: And you stretch a marcia out.

Lauren Tarpley: Please have respect for the hymns, like come on now. And just all these things. But I did not recognize myself, pot belly, round face, bald head, all of these things. I had acne from chemo. My nose was bleeding so much. Like I just did not recognize myself. I didn't feel like myself. I didn't recognize myself. And I just felt like ugly and gross. And I started to feel like I looked like those quintessential cancer.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: And I was like, something has to change here.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: And that's when I got the oncological therapist, because I think that is just so different than a regular therapist. Honestly.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I totally hear that. I have like a quote unquote, "Regular therapist now," but a couple years ago I had like a rehab psychology therapist, like people who are trained to help people who are facing chronic pain, which that was like really, really tough for me. Yeah, like I definitely encourage folks, if you have a therapist that you love, keep it going. And there might be times in that relationship where there are limits to maybe how they can support you. And also there are expanded possibilities with folks who see and deal with a lot of people who might be facing similar things as you.

Lauren Tarpley: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jodi-Ann Burey: But I do have a question as we wrap up. Because we talked a lot about like family histories and kind of navigating these experiences with a level of nuance that I don't think a lot of people share or go into depth about, and as we talk about young folks with cancer, what are you going to tell Chip about this experience?

Lauren Tarpley: Oh, I'm going to tell him everything. I've been writing him once a week since it all started.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: I'll tell him everything. I have been raising Chip differently than I was raised and not like not too crazy, and I don't want to generalize because I don't, like black people aren't modeling and I don't know what happens behind other people's doors, but like my parents were raised like, I love you, I see you later. Call me at five.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah, I know that was not a thing.

Lauren Tarpley: I don't think that's very common with a lot of black people. But when I was like 25, I started that with my parents and I was like, I'm not getting off the phone until you tell me you love me. My mom was like, I'll stop calling you. You know? So like I made it, yeah. Then don't do it. But I made sure that I told her, I mean, probably way too much, but at least like, I don't know, seven to 10 times a day. I love her.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: So I'm going to be a lot more open with him than my parents were with me about who is sick, what they have, what they have going?

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: What I have had, it takes a huge elephant off my chest for the future about having children with like, my BRCA and all my genetics coming back negative. So I don't have anything to pass along. I know at the moment for what they're actually testing, I think I got tested for like 119 mutations. But yeah, I'll be telling him everything because you know how kids talk and people talk. But what I do want everyone to talk about is AYA cancer. And for everyone to at least know how to give yourself an exam, because I'm not going to lie.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Lauren Tarpley: Before this, I didn't know how to give like the best breast exam. I felt what I saw, I needed to be feeling on the first of the month and that's that sometimes I would skip months. That's that I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to be like, I was so vigilant and diligent with it. I am not. I'm a baby gynecologist. I only know how to give myself half a breast exam. Okay.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lauren Tarpley: But yeah, I'll be telling him everything and we'll be doing the fundraising and the walking. I mean, everything until this is cured because it needs to go away.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. Thanks so much for spending this time with me.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah. Thank you for having me.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Is there anything else you wanted to tell folks?

Lauren Tarpley: Are you sure you don't want to talk about toxic positivity?

Jodi-Ann Burey: We can. I just have to wrap in three minutes. Well, we can have a quick. Like a bonus section where you want to just talk about toxic positivity for two minutes and I'll put that as a post show.

Lauren Tarpley: No, it's totally fine.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Positivity is...

Lauren Tarpley: [crosstalk 01:16:54] some bullshit.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Fuck your congratulations.

Lauren Tarpley: Yeah. Its somebody to be in a fucking good mood today. I don't take a shit in public. Don't talk about it.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I take shits in public.

Lauren Tarpley: I am such a good role model.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I'm happy I'm alive, but I'm fucking struggling.

Lauren Tarpley: Yes, I mean, mentally.

Jodi-Ann Burey: You don't know my life.

Lauren Tarpley: You don't know my life.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Black Cancer is created, edited and produced by me, Jodi-Ann Burey. Thank you so much, Lauren, for sharing your story with us to make sure that other Black Cancer stories become center to how we talk about cancer. Like, subscribe, rate, leave a review, check out our website at blackcancer.co and on Instagram @_black_cancer. Trauma comes with endless wisdom for ourselves and those all around us tell someone you know about Black Cancer.