Full Episode Transcript

Episode 3: I’m About That Life (with Tamika Felder)

Transcription Edited by: Genneil Martin

Running time: 1:27:43

Tamika Felder: Wait a minute, do you know how I survive cancer? How dare you speak to me? How do you disrupt my peace? Do you know what I went through to be in this world? [laughter] I'm about that life. And when I say that it's not the typical "I'm 'bout that life, I'll beat you." No, I'm 'bout that life. I'm about living my life and living life the way that I want to live it. And if you don't like it...

Jodi-Ann Burey: You can't create space for that.

Tamika Felder: No.

[music]

Jodi-Ann Burey: Welcome to Black Cancer, a podcast about the nuances of our lives as people of color told through our cancer journeys. I'm creator and host, Jodi-Ann Burey. Our guest on today's episode is Tamika Felder. Tamika is a successful non-profit founder, a cancer advocate and award winning director and inspirational leader and so, so, so much more. Her organization is called Cervivor, C-E-R-V-I-V-O-R. And it's a movement to end cervical cancer. You can learn more about Cervivor at cervivor.org.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Tamika was diagnosed with cervical cancer over 20 years ago and has been unstoppable building her dreams. Her courage, wisdom, and spark are absolutely contagious. She's the author of Seriously, What Are You Waiting For? 13 Actions to Ignite Your Life & Achieve The Ultimate Comeback. She empowers everyday people to bounce back by equipping them with the tools to find perspective after tragedy and loss.

Jodi-Ann Burey: You will absolutely want to take notes and set aside some time for reflection after this conversation. I am still beaming with everything she shared. Here's my conversation with Tamika.

[music fades]

Jodi-Ann Burey: Look at you with the twist-out today. Yes!

Tamika Felder: Full of sweat from the gym, but you know [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: Better than me. You are better than me.

Tamika Felder: They were going live today so I was like, I should look a little decent today [laughter] in the gym.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Oh my God.

Tamika Felder: [laughter] Just a little bit.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Do you like going to the gym?

Tamika Felder: No, but I do it because I feel better and I want to live longer [laughter] and these bones, these radiated bones, I need the movement. But no, no, no and no. I've made it a priority, that's the only reason it's getting done. It's like you can't do anything else until you do that. And so sometimes it takes me all day. I'm literally at midnight and I'm like, I got to do it. And I'm like, if it's going to happen, I got to keep going.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I appreciate that. So would you work out at midnight?

Tamika Felder: Yeah, I have.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Me too. God bless my neighbors because I'll be on that Peloton bike [laughter].

Tamika Felder: We have a Cervivor slimmed down group that's on Facebook and open to all cancer patients. And it just promotes a healthy living, whatever that looks like for you. And so we have challenges and different things like that. So for April we just finished a squat challenge and now we're doing begrudgingly, a jumping jack challenge for me [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: Not trying to do that.

Tamika Felder: But you can modify which I will be doing [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: We need to do step out on the sides.

Tamika Felder: You still moving and stretching your body. So you still are doing it.

Jodi-Ann Burey: [laughter] How do you deal with modifications?

Tamika Felder: I want to do better, but my body's like no girl, this is what you're capable of. I pushed myself actually last week with something and I couldn't even turn my neck. I hurt myself. So I learned a very valuable lesson and I was scared of falling [laughter]. And it's all because of- because of age well yeah. I mean, age definitely, but because my bones had been radiated, I mm-mm (negative).

Jodi-Ann Burey: Speaking of being a cancer survivor and weight loss. And I think weight loss is hard to talk about because-

Tamika Felder: And it's not just weight loss. So even though it's called Cervivor slim down really for me, but it really is about whole wellness. So a lot of people in there aren't necessarily for weight loss. There's some people in there who are trying to gain weight, actually. So, but yeah. So we have a full spectrum, but it literally, the woman who runs it for me, she lost 113 pounds and she got all these certifications in cancer wellness. So we have the expert in there that's really good. And she definitely pushes us, but also understands our unique limitations.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Coming to terms with cancer related, physical limitations and the mental and emotional hurdles of that in addition to the physical hurdles with that, can you say more about that? Because you're speaking my language and I think this is the first time I'm even talking to someone about this specifically. And so I'm getting excited because I have been really struggling with these ideas myself.

Tamika Felder: When you're diagnosed with cancer, there are so many changes that happen. Obviously there are changes that happen to your body, whether it's the loss of a organ or for me it was radiation burns. I went home with an open wound. I've always been overweight, but I've always had an active life even though my body fat composition wasn't what America's scale says is normal [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: Whole thing is rooted in white supremacy anyway, blah, blah, blah, BMI [laughter].

Tamika Felder: So I have to say, with acknowledging that I do need to lose weight and be healthy, but there is nothing wrong with me in sense of how I feel about myself and how I love myself. So with that said, cancer came in and being 25, I was used to going to with club, popping it, locking it, drop it low, all this other stuff. And I couldn't do any of that.

Tamika Felder: I mean, something as simple as going to the mall with my friends was such a hard task. And for your audience who's been through this or they're just starting out, it zaps your energy. You do all these things to kind of keep the energy up, but cancer zaps your energy. It's emotionally taxing, but it's physically taxing. And so we don't talk enough about the importance of weight-bearing exercises. We think when we're older we'll need to do this. And so there's this whole mental aspect of it, especially if you're a young adult is diagnosed with cancer that you feel like you're maybe a geriatric cancer patient and it's really hard. It messes with you psychologically, but there are things that I wish I would have done then that I know now.

Tamika Felder: I wasn't an active person in terms of going to the gym and working out, I see people going through treatment and I was like, they're better than me, look at them. But there is, there's science that says that it does help you, it strengthen your immunity, all this other stuff. And then there are people who we just can't even fathom going to the gym. I'm speaking to myself here.

You just want to have enough energy to be able to go to treatment, get home and just do it all again on repeat for however long treatment is. But it's definitely conversations that we need to have. So one of my things 20 years later that I make sure I do now is I tell people, even if it's something gentle, if it's yoga, if it's stretching, going out for walks, because not only is it about getting up a sweat, it's really just about movement, making sure that you have some type of movement in your life.

Tamika Felder: And so I think it's really important. We have a group Cervivor slim down, it's a private group on Facebook open to all cancer survivors, any diagnosis, any age, and it's run by a cancer survivor who lost 113 pounds. She's now certified in all types of cancer wellness. It's not only for people who want to lose weight, it's for people who just want to keep active.

For me, it has been a journey. I was on this path, at least I thought I was before I was diagnosed, now going through this and at the ripe age of almost 46, I want to live as long as possible. And I want to live healthy. When I'm working out, am I scared I'm going to fall and crack a bone? Yes, because that's what treatment did to me. And I know why bone density ratio is low. And so you want to be careful with those things.

Tamika Felder: As cancer patients, we have to know our limits. We tell this to people in life in general, and it's especially important for us because there's some people, they want to go out there and they just want to out the gate be Rocky or whatever. And for a lot of us, it's just not going to happen. So be gentle with yourself, but also push yourself. And when I say push yourself, it doesn't mean that I want you to go from zero to 100, but maybe you click the dial up to 10 [laughter]. I did something today. I planked without modifying it, now I didn't stay up the whole minute, but I was proud of myself. For me I try to pick something every time I work out to push myself and it doesn't always work out but I try, I try to do something.

Tamika Felder: Sometimes I'm hard on me and I find myself in a bucket of tears because I'm like, why is it so hard for me to do certain things? And when I have extra pain on my left side, it's like, well, that was my primary chemo arm. And you just have to be gentle. Your body's different, I'm all about acceptance. And these are the things that we have to accept so that we can move forward.

Jodi-Ann Burey: It sounds so seductive and it's so hard. It is absolutely so hard. And I was definitely one of the ones that, I was like, all right, cool. I'm out the hospital, I'm out the gate, let's go. And it's like, girl, you cannot walk like others [laughter].

Tamika Felder: That's why I always share about walking around the mall. I mean, even getting from the car to the entrance of the mall and then it was like, whew, I'm out of breath. Wait a minute, this isn't just because I'm overweight, this is a different type of tired. And realizing that your energy is just completely zapped. And the neuropathy-

Jodi-Ann Burey: Neuropathy! Nobody knows what neuropathy is unless you feel it, you can not... People who do not have neuropathy, do not understand.

Tamika Felder: And even when we do have it, it takes us a minute to realize exactly what it is and what's happening.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Oh, it took me three years, literally recently to, huh, it's neuropathy, that's what I'm dealing with [laughter].

Tamika Felder: You're like, oh, I fell asleep, but it's different [laughter]. Why isn't it waking up? I'm massaging it, why am I waking up? [laughter]

Jodi-Ann Burey: And so I tell people, I was like, you know what it feels like when your foot falls asleep and they're like, yes. And I was like, so just imagine that but worse and always [laughter] and everywhere.

Tamika Felder: Yes. You have to get used to so many things and you're just like, Lord, do I need another thing? [laughter]

Jodi-Ann Burey: I know.

Tamika Felder: But it's what it is and we have to adapt and I hate the phrase, new normal.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I hate it.

Tamika Felder: I hate it.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I hate it so much, I might edit it out of this conversation [laughter]. I might jus just do, toot, like you said the first one.

Tamika Felder: [laughter] Yes. And it's like, it's new but there's nothing normal about it. And I guess that is the entire point of it. But we buck against that. We don't want to go with it. For me, I wanted to, okay, I'm done with treatment, I feel good. Now let me go back right where I stopped, where cancer came into my life and pick up where I was and I just couldn't do it.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I know.

Tamika Felder: And the more that I talked to people, they can't do it either. And if you're lucky enough to do it, God bless you. But most people can't go back and pick up from where they were because you're different. And so a lot of what I do is I try to tell people that you have to accept what happened to you, but also accept what you're transitioning into. And it sounds so Macau, it sounds like this awful thing, but it doesn't have to be. But you like anything, I tell people when you're growing out your hair or you're transitioning from natural to... you know, you go through this transition phase.

Tamika Felder: Now cancer is the extreme transition phase, but it's still a transition phase nonetheless. And the more that you fight against that acceptance and that transition, the longer you will be stuck and you can't move forward. And it's hard. It's a hard pill to swallow because you've been through so much, but you're ready, I'm going to be me, do me. I'm going to live my life. But it's like you're in this in between. You're the person that you were and then you're the person post-cancer. And what we know is post-cancer really isn't a post-cancer because you just really move into the survivorship phase. So you went through treatment hell and now you're in the survivorship phase and you're trying to navigate being okay and what is that like. So maybe you're on the survivorship phase, but you're in long-term treatment. Right? Or maybe you will always be in treatment and you will always be fighting cancer. And so you have to navigate, how do I live my life despite constantly being in treatment? Or how about constantly being in pain.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Or constantly being in pain [simultaneously].

Tamika Felder: Yes.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Constantly being in pain, constantly medicated if that's treatment or pain management or maybe do you ever get out of a survivorship phase?

Tamika Felder: So I think everyone is different. So for me there were times when I never felt good. It's weird because did I feel good, had happy moments and I was living my life, but things were painful, brain fault, all this other stuff. So I never felt really great. And when people were like, well, I hate when you go for a checkup and they're like, which one are you? Are you smiley face, happy face, frowny face, mad face, angry face. And I'm like, I'm all of it [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yes. So what time is it?

Tamika Felder: What time is it, what day is it, I'm all of these things. And what I realized, and especially now, and I'm a 20 year cancer survivor. So I'm a long-term survivor, thank God. But this is the best that I've ever felt. And I don't feel 100% good but when I look at how I felt, what I was dealing with, this is the best that I have ever felt, but I worked hard to get here.

So it wasn't one day I just woke up and I felt good. I actively worked at feeling better. I mean the whole bone loss thing, arthritis, as young adult cancer patients, you may have heart issues. I remember one time they thought I had this circulation issue thing, thank God I didn't, but I had to go through all these testings. Just because I wasn't feeling good in it at the end of the day what they realized I had radiation damage where my hip was. That's what was causing me all this pain. Of course at first they were like, well, probably you got a heart issue because you need to lose weight, dah, dah, dah.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I hate that.

Tamika Felder: But at the end of the day, cancer is the gift that keeps on giving and it was the effects from radiation damage. And over time I have to stretch. Again, not because I'm getting older, because you have to stretch for that anyway on top of everything that my body went through at 25 because of my cancer diagnosis.

Tamika Felder: So it's learning that when these things come up, because I will tell you, I will freak out in a doctor's office, I will cry, I have PTSD. One of my doctors has this sign about I cater to cowards. And I was like, you have that sign for me. People think because I've been poked so many times because of cancer treatment, that I'm good with needles. No, I'm not [laughter]. It's the opposite [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: Exactly. I went and I got my first dose this past week, and mind you again, in the hospital and you're probably longer than me as someone who went through chemotherapy and radiation. For me, I was just constantly poked every fricking day. And every time you get an MRI, you have to get the IV and all that kind of stuff. And I went and I sat there and it's just in my shoulder. And it's just like that one little poke. And I sat there and I'm remembering all these other times that I had to get stuck with needles and the burden of that and the fact that you can't avoid it.

Jodi-Ann Burey: And for me, being in the hospital, it felt like a loss of my body in a way. I could just be laying there, hanging out with my family, hang out with my friends, someone will pop up and they need to poke me with a couple needles. And there was this guy who would come in and I was the first room on his morning rounds to do blood draw. And he would just walk up in my room at five o'clock in the morning. And I had no choice, I know no agency in that. And all of that was rushing to me just to get a vaccination. I've talked about this before, when I go and get my annuals at my gynecologist, you got to get in the hospital gown. And I could be fine emotionally going to the doctor. I know it's going to happen. And then as soon as I put the gown on, it's like I become a different person. And I'm so scared and I'm crying and I'm short with the nurses and the doctor. And it's just, when you talk about cancer and your medical traumas and your medical journey, a lot of people think you're fine, but there are a lot of ways that I am more fine than I was a couple of years ago. And there are a lot of moments that still trigger that trauma. I'm still not okay. I'm not used to it. I don't know.

Tamika Felder: You just hit the nail on the head. They don't look at cancer as a trauma, [inaudible 00:19:36] the trauma, we do suffer from PTSD, from the trauma of cancer. I mean, if you just think about from time of diagnosis, things happen so fast and you've got a lot coming you and you're supposed to make life-deciding decisions. It's a whirlwind. And how do you even keep up with it? It's nauseating, it's dizzying, you just feel like you are coming undone. With every spin, part of you ends up over there, you spin around again, some part of you is over there and you're just trying to cope. You're just trying to make it another day. But we get so fixated on when is it going to end? When are we going to be done with it? Because we're human and we want it, because it's awful. I've never met anyone who's just like, oh my God, cancer is amazing [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: [laughter] Let me tell you something, cancer! Whew chile!

Tamika Felder: If I think of things that are good, it's like, okay, if you force me to come up with ways that cancer was great, I would say, oh, I understand truly the meaning of life right now. That's great to understand that. It's great to know why it's important to live your one life. None of us are getting out of here alive. This is-

Jodi-Ann Burey: That's the damn truth.

Tamika Felder: Right? We're not getting out of here alive. So we have to decide how are we going to live our life. And I always say, if you want to live your life in Netflix and chill and be the best couch potato ever, that is your right to do it. If there are things that you want to do when you've got to work on them, that's your right to do it too. So as long as you just living life on your terms, because life comes with an expiration date.

Tamika Felder: I talk about this in my book that you have to literally not give up. And for me, when I was diagnosed, I wasn't to the point where I was like, if it's my time, it's my time. No, I'm not ready to go. I have things that I still want to do, things that I want to experience. And even when I got at my darkest point, because there were times when I wanted to give up.

If you've never trapped gas [laughter]...

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yo! [laughter]

Tamika Felder: I had a radical hysterectomy and anybody listening who's ever experienced trapped gas, they know exactly what I'm talking about. It will make you see the light and go into the light [laughter]. You wouldn't think something like that would do it, but it is true. Trapped gas will make you do your final rights and say goodbye to your loved ones [laughter] and friends. And you just feel like you can't go on. And so-

Jodi-Ann Burey: Could I just double on this [laughter]. I had a moment in the hospital where I had to pass my first bowel movement after the surgery and it was-

Tamika Felder: It's terrifying [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: [laughter] Literally I want to walk into the light, you know what I'm saying? And then I'm like, you ready to go off a shit? That's how you want to go out [laughter]?! It is so physically taxing, it's so emotionally taxing. I was really ready to go. I was done.

Tamika Felder: It is terrifying [laughter]! And listen, these are things that we would never talk about. But cancer, that's the gifts of cancer [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: Now I'm the person that my friends go to when they're having, I call myself a poop therapist because I've been going [crosstalk 00:23:25].

Tamika Felder: You talk about a lot of poops.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yes. So my friends who've had babies, for folks who have had children, getting that back in order is really difficult because that's also very a traumatizing surgery, something that happens to your body and they'll hit me up, yo, I'm experiencing constipation. I was like, let me tell you here are all your options [laughter].

Tamika Felder: [laughter] Sometimes you just need McDonald's.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I think sometimes you really do. No, but yeah, I think there are nuances in the cancer experience and for all different ways that people have experienced cancer, types of cancer and different ways that people were treated for cancer. And that's something that's been important to me about this podcast too. And things that I had in my experience as well as questioning, okay, did I even really have cancer, because I didn't go through radiation and didn't go through chemotherapy. And then I met other people who had surgery and saw a lot of their experiences, we resonated with each other.

Jodi-Ann Burey: But then I talked to people who've gone through chemo, who've gone through radiation and there's so much overlap in our journeys even if our pathways were different. And I think if we talk about the gifts of cancer, what I hope, at least in the people that I've met is that there's more openness in that. And really understanding and being curious about and giving space for the nuances of people's journeys even if they are different than my own.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Whereas I feel when it comes to like pop cancer, like pop culture cancer, how we talk about cancer as a culture, as a society, it flattens those nuances and it's all about beat cancer, kick cancer's ass, you got this. And it just feels so limited in how we get to express and understand our own experiences.

Tamika Felder: I think it's because we went from the exact opposite of the spectrum. So when I was diagnosed in 2001, cancer was still this thing where it wasn't really empowering. And even though he fell from grace, Lance Armstrong worked really hard to put this face and this champion, if you will, the whole Live Strong Movement on cancer. But then it still felt like a death sentence. That it was this really bad thing.

Tamika Felder: And so cancer still is this bad thing, but we become desensitized to it because it's in songs, it's in movies, it's in TV shows. So if we see someone who looks "like a cancer patient," it's not as jarring as it once was. On one hand that's really good but on another hand, it really sucks because it's just like, oh, well, you get cancer and you beat it. You fight like hell and that's it. And it sounds good saying it, but it's the farthest from the truth.

Jodi-Ann Burey: And I think that impacts your social support too because people who maybe aren't intimately involved in your journey have that fight this, you got this narrative. And because it's not that-

Tamika Felder: But it's the one thing you have no control over.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Tamika Felder: So you can fight it, but you've got no control over it.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yes. I can't do anything about my neuropathy. It takes work to mentally wrap your brain around the fact that your body grew something that threaten your life.

Tamika Felder: An alien.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yes [laughter].

Tamika Felder: [laughter] That's kind of how I kind of think about the tumor. Where did this alien come from?

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yes!

Tamika Felder: And why did it come to me? What did I do? [laughter]

Jodi-Ann Burey: [laughter] So I want to get into your journey.

Tamika Felder: Okay. Let's get into it.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Okay. Because, said this before, you got diagnosed at 25. I got diagnosed at 32 and I was really struggling at that time already before I even had the news with, all right, this is what life is supposed to be, you graduate at 22, you got a good job, you find somebody. All my older siblings, all got married at 26, 26 came and gone for me, I had nobody. 30, I'm supposed to have a kid, dah, dah, dah. They're all these like social expectations of what's supposed to happen when in your life, especially at this young adult developmental phase.

Jodi-Ann Burey: And when none of those things were happening for me, and then this thing entered my life, which was not in the plan, there was no expected milestone of cancer as a young person. That really messed with me. And so I'm curious, what was your experience, your mindset in your 20s, expectations for what your life was supposed to be like if you got wrapped up in that socialization as I did and how your diagnosis complicated that when that was happening for you so young?

Tamika Felder: Sure. I have always been a dreamer, heads in the clouds type of person. I mean, if you look at my second grade report card it says, Tamika is daydreaming yet again. And I was daydreaming about being this TV producer, a host, the next Oprah. And so having cancer was not in the chronological plans of Tamika lives her best life. And the irony is that when I was diagnosed, I remember...

Tamika Felder: So it happened in spring. And I remember thinking like, God, life is good. I love 25. I want to stay 25 forever. Not knowing that I would almost be 25 forever. But I do. I remember thinking, I did it. I left South Carolina and I love South Carolina, but I wanted to experience living somewhere else. I wanted to work in television. If you know that old movie broadcast news, I love that. I used to watch Current Affair. And I remember I used to tell my parents, I'm going to do that. They're just like, okay [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: You're a child.

Tamika Felder: I'm definitely a third child. And if you know and live in color. Like my cousin, who's like a brother to me, he calls me a Little Magic. He literally calls me Magic. So you know the character of Little Magic, the way it says, you're like, "You could do it Magic, you can do a Little Magic."

So my family, where there was this age gap, 20 some years between me and my siblings, it's like, you can do it, you can do it. But I actually did it. And I was doing it really well. I was on the cusp of accepting a position in New York. And I was like, oh, you can't tell me nothing.

Jodi-Ann Burey: No, can't touch me at all.

Tamika Felder: This is happening. It's going down. I have this whole plan. Then I'm going to go to LA from there, and world domination! Oprah, look out, here I come, girl.

Jodi-Ann Burey: [laughter] You know how many people have been gunning for Oprah for decades?

Tamika Felder: But you know what I realized, if someone said this to me and I got it, and they were like, well, why do you have to be the next Oprah? Why can't you just be Tamika Felder? And you're-

Jodi-Ann Burey: Because Oprah is killing it right now [laughter].

Tamika Felder: Oprah is killing it. But we each have this magic.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Exactly.

Tamika Felder: This light that is inside of us. And the difference with Oprah, and if you really know her story and you look at everything, all the obstacles, she kept going after what she wanted. Was she disputed at times on her life? Absolutely. But she never gave up on who she was or what she wanted. And so-

Jodi-Ann Burey: About the Oprah thing, I think I did a project on her in the fifth grade and I didn't understand it at the time the way I understand it now and I think about this because I'm attracted to people who, or some narratives around what happens to your life after a trauma. Oprah was raped and sexually assaulted when she was a child, a child. I think she was nine or something. And her trauma is a part of who she is.

Tamika Felder: Oh, she doesn't hide it, [crosstalk] what happened to you. It's all about, here's what happened to you and how do you move forward and beyond it. And I love that. I think we, it's definitely going to be on my summer reading list. But for me things were happening. And I can't say I have-

Jodi-Ann Burey: You're finding your own magic. You were in your own groove. Yeah. I hear that.

Tamika Felder: Yes. I remember the first time I got to produce live news and I felt that power. I felt that, yeah, there are these talking heads on television, but they're saying and reading what I wrote, my mind. And it was great. And I had this boil under my arm [laughter], and I have this five speed at the time. And if anybody's familiar with the Beltway in Washington DC and or any type of highway. Being a country girl, I love my five speed. But in a city it's annoying when you have traffic or whatever. And I was telling my mom about it. And she was like, well, you've been dealing with it for a while. And I had, of course, all these home remedies. I remember my aunt said, put cheesecloth on it or hot compress and it'll draw the pus out of...

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yes, the hot compress!

Tamika Felder: Listen, I tell people, I have a little home remedy for everything. My people... As people, we always did what we had to do to survive. And when you weren't allowed to go to hospitals or not see doctors, you had to come up with your own things. And they made do with what they had. And my mom was like, well, you've done all those things, now it's time for you to go to the doctor. And I went to the doctor and I was starting a new job. Working for a new station that was offering full benefits because I didn't have health benefits before. A lot of people who work freelance, they get it, they understand. And I was 25. I'm like, I don't care. This job is great. I mean, 25, I'm not going to get sick [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: And you know what I'll say, because I remember when I was just getting my first job and the folks from the health insurance companies, they come and they're like, you can choose a high deductible plan or this plan and whatever. And then they kind of push on you like, well, if you're young, if you don't really get sick, you can do a higher deductible plan. And I played myself and I was on that for a year. And I'm like, this is whack because I actually... When I was trying to get diagnosed, I was like, I'm actually going to the doctor a lot because I started experiencing symptoms.

Tamika Felder: I remember it took the least amount of money out of my paycheck [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: Exactly. And I think as a young person, you're just like, you're gambling and you're betting on your youth to keep you protected, but it's not guaranteed.

Tamika Felder: It's not guaranteed. So when I went to this emergency outpatient place, doctor or nurse doing intake and you're filling out the forms and then they come in and look at the forms they ask you this question. When was your last physical? Dah, dah, dah, all this. I was like, whoa, when was it? Maybe three years ago. I remember the last doctor I saw was going to get a Pap and again, no one wakes up. I'm like, oh my God, it's Pap day. I love Pap day. I love my feet up into the stirrups and went straight, look down-

Jodi-Ann Burey: Can't wait.

Tamika Felder: ... on my coochie and then there's all other people in, is a hot... There's this whole thing. But this woman, she said to me, she said, "Your belly is so big..." And it's funny because I was so much smaller then [laughter]. She was like...

Jodi-Ann Burey: Are these are actual words she said to you?

Tamika Felder: Yeah. These are the actual, I am not paraphrasing. She said, "Your belly is so big if you were pregnant, you wouldn't know." I was like, I would think...

Jodi-Ann Burey: Bitch.

Tamika Felder: And I remember I was so hot. I could feel the temperature rising. I said, "No, I'll come back, I'll reschedule." She's like, "No, no, no, no." Because I mean, I'm naked. And I was just like, "No, we're not going forward." And I'm not blaming my cancer diagnosis on her, I'm sharing the story as a way to say one for the medical folks who may be listening, your bedside manner matters and your words, and think before you speak. That's one side of it. But also for the patients, because of that experience with the doctor, I still should have gotten screened. Maybe not by her, but I should have scheduled another appointment with someone else in the practice or call my insurance and get another referral or whatever. But I didn't. So that's all a part of it. And these are things that people need to be mindful of. You don't fat-shame your patients, there's a way to tell your patient that they need to work on their health without fat-shaming them. And I'm not even a sensitive person in that way. But it rubbed me the wrong way. So anyway.

Jodi-Ann Burey: But that erodes trust, because that happened to me... Someone said something to me, it made me feel, it disturbed me so much, that I didn't go back to the doctor for a year. And so saying the wrong thing, approaching someone the wrong way could mean life or death for someone if they're in a situation where that gap of not seeking healthcare changes the game for the trajectory of their lives.

Tamika Felder: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Fast forward, they recommended a doctor. And I remember I was thinking like, you just want to get some patients for your wife. But the factor ended up being the best doctor ever. I call her a Persian grandma because she was this older, little tiny, older woman. But she was, I mean, a presence. She was something.

Tamika Felder: She was like, "Well, Tamika, we don't have your medical history. So I need you to come back in two weeks." I was like, I can't come back in two weeks. I'm a busy TV producer in Washington DC [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: Did you not know? [laughter]

Tamika Felder: [laughter] But this was her rule. And if you can see her right now, that visualize in that moment, kind of scary. And so you're like, let me come back in two weeks. And I remember I had on my fabulous Tarjay suit because I had a bump increase in my paycheck. So I was like, let me rock this power pewter gray suit from Tarjay, had my new bag, all this other stuff. And so when I went back, she was going over all the tests. Know this, know that, whatever. And then she said, let's talk about your Pap. And for me it was literally like a scene out of a movie. It was like the bottom fell out. And I couldn't believe that this was happening. And I foolishly thought this woman is a lunatic. I know what cancer looks like. My dad died of cancer. I had uncles and aunts who died of cancer. I don't have cancer. Do I look like someone that has cancer? No, I don't look like someone who has cancer. And I-

Tamika Felder: Of course then you're thrown into the space where on one hand people are telling you, don't worry we see this all the time, I'm sure it's nothing. Then also things are moving fast and they want me to go see this specialist and do that. And I'm just like, I started this new job, I'm about to get fired, I can't get fired [laughter]. And so I didn't know it then, but I know it now. I saw so many doctors and got so many second opinions because I was praying that out of all of the doctors, someone would tell me that all the other doctors got it wrong and I didn't have cancer, but the truth was I did have cancer. And in order to save my life, I had to have a radical hysterectomy, which meant losing my fertility. I wasn't in a rush to have children and I was definitely career focused. Did I want to have a family and my own children at some point in my life? Absolutely. I figured I'd be like my mom. My mom had my sister when she was 18 and my brother a few years after that. She didn't have me until she was 42. So I thought I'd be like that. I'd have kids later in life. And it was devastating for me. I can't even really articulate how devastating it was for me to lose my fertility. And I was thinking of-

Jodi-Ann Burey: What did they say to you? How did you...

Tamika Felder: I was thinking I didn't die but the entire time I was scared I was going to die. The entire time. When people were like, but do you faith didn't see you through? No I questioned my faith. And there are people who don't like to hear that, but it's my truth. I was afraid that I was going to die. So hearing those words, you have cancer. I can't even say all the curse words I want to say right now [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: I mean, this is my podcast, you can say whatever you want [laughter].

Tamika Felder: No, I have a potty mouth. I love the Lord, but I got a potty mouth [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yes [laughter]. Sometimes these words are appropriate when we tell our stories.

Tamika Felder: I literally, and I'm a talker, if you guys haven't noticed that. I was speechless. It's one of the very few times in my life. So I went from shock to anger, to so distraught in distress. They had to give me something and call my emergency contact to come and get me.

Jodi-Ann Burey: And this is all in the same appointment when they told you.

Tamika Felder: All in the same appointment. It is funny because for those of you who have experienced chemo brain, you forget segments of life. You just get stuff. It could be something that just happened or it could be something from years ago and it's hard for you to remember. And there's so much that I have forgotten, but there's so much about this one appointment that I do remember. And I remember just kind of sitting there and it's kind of muffled because I had checked out. I could hear people coming over to me and asking if I was okay, the nurse, I remember bringing me a cup of water. And I remember I wanted to slap that shit out of her hand. And I didn't, but I was so angry because I was just like, how dumb can you be to think I have cancer and saying it out loud, I know it sounds crazy. But I literally was just like, I don't have cancer. Tell me I have high blood pressure. Hell, I'm fat. Tell me I got diabetes. I don't want these things, but tell me these things and it makes sense in my mind, how the hell do I have cancer?

And I just couldn't wrap my mind around it. I mean, talk about having... I say, I may have been one click from a psychotic break when this happened, because it was so devastating to me. I literally saw my life flash in the front of my face and it was going to stop at 25. And I was just like, that's not my story. That can't be how my story ends. I mean, at 46, I don't want my story to end here either, but I definitely... It's like it can't end here at 25. I haven't started living yet.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. Like you're just kind of on your way and then this hits. So how did that appointment compare to, and I don't know if this happened in the same conversation that you would have to have a radical hysterectomy.

Tamika Felder: No, it happened weeks later. So my doctor was trying to get me into Johns Hopkins in Baltimore. So about 45 minutes away from where I live in upper Marlboro, just outside DC. And I remember thinking, I got to go to Hopkins. From what I know about Hopkins, you got to be real f'ed up if you go in there. I mean, they talk about medical miracles and marvels, things happening at Hopkins.

Jodi-Ann Burey: [laughter] Say I don't want to go to the hospital where when you check out at Whole Foods, they're like, do you want to donate $1 to the hospital?

Tamika Felder: I was like, Hopkins, no. And she was like, yes. I was like, no. But remember I told you, Persian grandmother.

Jodi-Ann Burey: When you have to go to the hospital that people all over the world fly to, to get treatment, you know you're in a different ball game.

Tamika Felder: Exactly. Exactly.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. I went to Sloan Kettering in New York and I was like damn, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, she goes there, shit [laughter].

Tamika Felder: [laughter] Because it's this whole minds.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. It's a mind fuck, I'll say it.

Tamika Felder: Yeah. It's this whole thing, I'm going there. So anyway, she couldn't get me in at first and then... On one part I was happy, but she would not give it up, she wouldn't let it go. And she got me in and I remember being pissed because I had to drive to freaking Baltimore. Baltimore people don't come at me in my DMs. I love [crosstalk].

Jodi-Ann Burey: Don't at me.

Tamika Felder: Yes. Don't come for me, I love charm city, I just didn't feel like driving there [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: Not try and drive there for my cancer treatment.

Tamika Felder: No. I get there and then I cause I got to wait. And I landed this new job and the lobby, it's filled with all this maternal child's stuff, pregnant people. We didn't have smartphones if you will. And so I couldn't just get online and occupy my mind. I was just like, I'm leaving, screw this [laughter]. I mosey up and I go tell the nurse, I'm leaving and this sister... It's always one [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: It's always one of us [laughter].

Tamika Felder: [laughter] She said, I saw your chart. Your doctor has called up here and begged to get you in. She was like, you see this person over here, they came from Bermuda. You see that person over there, they came from Canada. They're waiting too. They have a flight same day. I'm all feeling my inside, I'm like, I don't care [laughter]. And she was just like, "Sometimes people get news and maybe need a little extra time. One day you might need a little extra time." And it slapped me across the face. She might as well said, "Hey girl, check yourself." And I did. So I went and sat right back down [laughter] in the middle of waiting area.

Jodi-Ann Burey: My bad. My bad [laughter].

Tamika Felder: [laughter] So then the doctor comes in. I see the doctor, he looks like maybe 10 years older than me and I'm like, no [laughter]. Because I'm 25, I'm like maybe he might be 35, maybe. And I'm be generous with that. So I'm like, you just came out of medical school, no [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: You don't know nothing.

Tamika Felder: [laughter] And I remember he laughed because I asked him, I said, how old... That was literally, he's walking in "Hello" and I was rude as fuck. I was like, how old are you? He kind of smirked a laugh. And he told me, and I don't remember, but I was pretty on the money. I think he was like 38 or something like that [laughter]. And it was rude. We've laughed about it since then. But again, 25, think you know everything. And I remember years later the nurse telling me and it makes me emotional to think about, he really wanted to save you. He looked at your chart and it made him so sad that you were so young and he really wanted to save you. And I was so rude to that man.

But that was the first time I heard radical hysterectomy and I wanted to... [crying] I've said radical hysterectomy so many times in these last 20 years. Sometimes I say it and it doesn't bother me, sometimes I say it like now, you get tears. I know why I'm crying because I survived it. And when you're diagnosed with cancer, you don't necessarily think you are going to survive it even when they tell you, you're probably going to survive it. But you know that whatever, even if you survive it, you never come out the same.

Jodi-Ann Burey: No.

Tamika Felder: And I've seen people's lives just devastated from experiencing cancer. And so for me, when I heard, you have kids, so you have to get a radical hysterectomy and then you hear all the potential complications and things that could happen, you check out. You feel all the emotions and everyone's different, but you check out, you want to fight it, you want to beat it. God, you just want it to be a dream. You want it not to be real. But then it is real. And just like that, my life changed. I wasn't prepared for it. And who's ever prepared for it.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. Nobody's sitting around waiting for the worst news of their lives.

Tamika Felder: People always ask me, how did I get through it? And so you know? Jesus, prayer, loving and family and friends. But for real, for real, I don't know. I don't, but I know I did and I'm so grateful for it. And I remember my prayer was like, God, if you get me out of this, I'll be the best human ever like I was some terrible human before that [laughter]. God, I will be the best human ever. I will, live my life and do this and I just, I wanted to survive. I would have done probably almost anything except sell my soul to the devil because I'm too scared. I went to Croatia and I feel like if hell is hot, it's probably as hot as Croatia, I can't survive it [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: I tested it out. Mm-mm (negative)

Tamika Felder: I can't go to hell, I got to go to heaven.

Jodi-Ann Burey: You need to be in a temperature-controlled situation.

Tamika Felder: Yeah. And it was hard. A lot of times some of us who may have been diagnosed at a earlier stage, we can just diminish what has happened because you meet other people, you hear their stories and you're like, I had a cakewalk compared to that. But the truth is, if I have tunnel vision, I just look at my story and I think about what happened to me, it was hard. It was hell going to radiation treatment every... Five days of the week. And when they bring chemo to you, they're so careful about it. The gloves that they have on, the way they hold it, the things that you have to do to prepare the body before you receive it, hydrating, checking your vitals, getting stick, prodded, all this other stuff and making sure that none of it drips on them because it's so poisonous because the poison runs through your body.

Tamika Felder: And I'm thankful for treatment, I'm thankful for that chemo, thankful for radiation to burn my body from the inside out. But I want listeners to think about that for a minute. You have to poison the body. So you're killing the bad cells, which are killing good ones too. You have to burn the body from the inside out to kill the cells. And I'm not saying that to scare anyone or make people rethink about having treatment, I'm saying it for the people who may be listening who don't have cancer, maybe they have a loved one has cancer or they're caring for someone or even a coworker, to give grace to people who are going through this because it is a mind fuck. It is this thing where you're literally sitting there.

I remember radiation. They come, they get you molded and ready and then they have to get out. They can't be anywhere. You're freaking radioactive. I don't think people really understand that, you are radioactive. Now I remember I went someplace a couple of years ago and they were like, ooh, you can just walk around here because, we don't want to give you any extra radiation. please, I'm almost at my capacity anyway, this won't hurt me [laughter].

Tamika Felder: It was funny to me and thinking it shouldn't be funny, but that's the way we survive it. I have to, you'll see I use a lot of humor because I'm a naturally humorous person. And it doesn't mean that I don't recognize the serious adverse events that I've been through. But it literally is one of those things where one day you will find me cussing and shaking my head and the next moment you'll see me doing a holy praise dance because it hits me in so many different ways. And I want people to survive and thrive. Because sometimes we just survive and we're just waking up every day. It's meaningless and it's... We're stuck. And again, I don't mean that you have to be a rock star at whatever you do, but I want you to wake up every day and be grateful for the life that you have and I want you to live it, whatever that looks like for you. And not give up on yourself.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yes. And one thing that I've been wrestling with is giving space for the breadth of that experience. Because for a couple years I was just kind of waking up and not happy. I was just kind of surviving. I wasn't trying to do anything with my life. I was just kind of sitting in this pit and hanging out in the pit. I had no aspirations for anything more than that. And what I kind of reconciled it with is, I was hoping that it was okay that I could just feel like that for however long I needed to feel like that. But always in my back of my mind, knowing, well, this has to be temporary, but I just didn't know that "temporary" was going to be a couple of years until I started thinking future oriented.

Jodi-Ann Burey: And I've shared this before, but the first kind of future thought that I had was when I said, "Oh, I want to do a Ted Talk." And I was like, "Oh shit, are you thinking about the future? [laughter] Are you not in this pit anymore?"

Tamika Felder: And so, I don't know... I'm sure you realize it, but people who are listening and they really understand what you're saying here.

Jodi-Ann Burey: All right. Dig down into it a little bit.

Tamika Felder: Yeah. You couldn't see yourself in the future.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I could not. Tamika got it, I could not see myself in the future. And I was in so much pain and so much despair that as you talk about like, oh, I wanted to live a long life, I had no aspirations for that. I was like live more days and years like this. I could not, even if I wanted to force a future thought.

Tamika Felder: You couldn't see yourself in the future.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I can't.

Tamika Felder: And that's one of those things until you've experienced this or something like this, you can't really truly understand it because you're like, wait a minute. No. You mean I'm going to be a grandma, I'm going to have a family, I'm going to be an adjunct professor. You can't see it.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I couldn't see it.

Tamika Felder: You can't see yourself.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I couldn't. And I think you more than me. I'm new to this, but being in a space where you can talk about your traumas, talk about your cancer journey and do so a lot and do so publicly, people forget or don't understand that we've navigated through a hell of a lot. And I'm curious for you, what has your experience been like over the years navigating people's expectations of how over it you are or kind of what that journey is like. Oh, it was dark and now I talk about it and everything's cool. And I want people to survive and thrive. You're like, wait, there was that period where it was tough.

Tamika Felder: Yeah. It was bleak. I literally remember thinking like, wait, I'm going to be okay? A question mark at the end. I'm going to make it?

Jodi-Ann Burey: Okay? Yeah question mark.

Tamika Felder: And when you say those things, it's also like the broken shell of who you once were. So basically what you're surviving isn't to be who you were prior to cancer, you're surviving the broken shell, the pieces the cancer have left you to work with essentially. So you're taking what's left and making a way with that. And that's what people don't understand. And so people, especially family and friends, they think cool, you're done with treatment, you're back to where you were.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Let's do this Tamika, we got this.

Tamika Felder: Yeah. And I remember friends wanting to go to the mall, wanted to go to the club. I was a huge clubber. I tore the club up. It's probably why I'm okay with not partying so hard now because I partied hard. And I just remember [laughter], this is funny. My friends love telling this story. They wanted to go to a club and I was like, I don't want to go to the club, but I also had this desire to just be normal, whatever that is. However normal you can be once you're diagnosed with cancer at 25. And I remember being in the club and instead of dancing or I was just doing a lame kind of two steps because I didn't want... I was just like, my body hasn't fully healed. What if something pops open? [laughter]

It's like, you have all these crazy thoughts and you're scared to live fully because you're waiting for the bottom to fallout again. And that's no way to live. And so for me, I had to find a way to not only survive, but thrive in my survivorship. You figure it out as you go. And I wrote a book, Seriously, What Are You Waiting For?: 13 Actions to Ignite Your Life And to Achieve the Ultimate Comeback, because for me it felt like a comeback. Not necessarily of what I was doing before.

I mean, there are pieces of me but there's also this new part of me that is learning and navigating. And I tell people all the time, they're just like, well, you're just so happy.

Jodi-Ann Burey: [sigh] Ugh. Yeah. Yeah.

Tamika Felder: Yeah. But I have days when I... I mean I just cried with you! [laughter]

Jodi-Ann Burey: I know, like five minutes ago.

Tamika Felder: You never know what is going to be like. But what I do, I honor those feelings. Before I always tell people, one of my actions in the book, have a freaking pity party. I cannot stand when somebody, and this didn't happen overnight, I came to this. When someone is just like, "You got to be strong. Pray, be strong!" Said no one who's ever had cancer! [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: [laughter] Legit! Legit.

Tamika Felder: You got to be strong, don't cry. You diagnosed with cancer and tell me if you don't cry!

Jodi-Ann Burey: Let me know how that goes for you.

Tamika Felder: [laughter] Yeah. And it's not that I want to be just so mean and witchy. But we've got to stop that. We've got to say, "Cry." We've got to say, it's okay to have your pity party. I don't want people to be in a pity party forever, but we have to grieve. I had to be able to grieve losing my fertility at 25, at a time when my friends were getting married and having kids and baby showers were just thrown down my throat repeatedly and not because they wanted to because they would ask me.

Tamika Felder: I remember I had a friend, she just looked at me and she was like, "Are you okay?" And I was grinning and smiling, "Mm-hmm!" (Affirmative). I was not okay. But I told her, she probably, I'm sure she knew it, but I wasn't okay because I was like, I'm never going to have this. And it wasn't about having a shower with presents and gifts, I am never going to be pregnant. I'm never going to feel a baby kick, I'm never going to know what it's like to poop on myself and push a kid out. I'm not going to know those things.

Tamika Felder: People have this thing, I've always wanted to be a mother. They talk about it all the time. I was never one of those girls. And it didn't mean that I didn't want to be a mom, but I was never one of those girls. I was always talking about, I'm going to be Oprah. I'm gonna have the show. I'm going to have my own TV show. I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. But I was never talking about I'm going to be a mom. But that doesn't negate the fact that I wanted to be a mom.

And I look at my life now and I have a great life, I have a wonderful life and I'm so blessed to still be able to breathe and live. But cancer took so many things away from me. I mean cancer to the good decade and a half from me. When I tell people that, especially people who weren't there or people who are there, they really sit there and think about it. It took a decade and a half from me. Because when I wasn't fighting the cancer, I was trying to live life beyond it.

And it took a decade and a half truly. And I can't do anything about it. I remember when someone offered for me to see a therapist or the social worker at the hospital and I was like, I don't need therapists. Like hell I didn't. But I didn't know that. I didn't know it then. I know now that I was depressed from being diagnosed with cancer. And I remember telling my doctor at one point, this was after I was in the survivorship phase, which is why I talk so much about thriving in that phase.

I remember I told my doctor that I was depressed and he laughed. He said, "You're not depressed, I know people who are depressed."

Jodi-Ann Burey: What?

Tamika Felder: Because I'm a naturally happy person. And he was wrong. And I look back at what happened to me and I think how the could I not be depressed? How could I not be depressed? How could I not be depressed getting diagnosed with cancer at 25, losing my fertility? How could I not be depressed being away from most of my family and friends, essentially being alone in a new city, newish right? Having to be treated at a hospital, that's not only far away from my house, but also known around the world for all these unique and special things. I remember walking into that hospital every day and sometimes I would just stay in there. And it would take everything within me to keep going. I remember pulling up at a parking space and just sitting in the car and just zoning out. And as a good Southern girl, those aren't the things that we're supposed to talk about. Supposed to talk about, "Praise God I survived it, I put it behind me." And yeah, that part is true too. But I talk about the other stuff because I think it's important for us to not only know what you see in public, but also know what it's like behind closed doors.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. Being strong can kill you. Being strong can put you more at risk than it can to protect you because maybe you don't understand that you need help. Other people can't see that you need help because you have all these ways to cope and be in the world that keeps you high functioning. Where people then don't believe that you're in pain, you need help, you're struggling, you need support.

Tamika Felder: My own doctor said, I wasn't depressed. And I had a great doctor. And he said, you're not depressed. I know people who are depressed and you're not depressed.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I don't know anything more invalidating than that.

Tamika Felder: Right.

Jodi-Ann Burey: And I think what's difficult and people might see in your story is, and they think this is very typical and expected of women of color, black women that we create out of our trauma, we create spaces for ourselves. What we do even despite our own hurt can be so generative. And that's evidenced in your story too. Wrote a book. You have this organization, your life and your work around cancer advocacy is such a big part of who you are. And maybe people can't see past everything you've created to understand that.

Tamika Felder: I built what I didn't have.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Tamika Felder: I built what I didn't have, I built needed.

Jodi-Ann Burey: And you needed something.

Tamika Felder: I tell people all the time when they're just like, "Thank you, thank you, thank you." I was like, don't thank me, I built this for selfish reasons.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I did this for me, this is my podcast.

Tamika Felder: You know what I'm saying [laughter]. I let people know, yes, I'm so glad you are benefiting from the fruits of my labor. But I did this for me.

Jodi-Ann Burey: So what do you think about that? Because I'm still struggling with this and I'm curious for you, because you've been doing this for a longer time. It's like, people using your life and your trauma to better their lives in some way. And I'm like...

Tamika Felder: It's weird.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Okay [laughter]. Can you please talk about that?

Tamika Felder: It's weird. Yeah. I don't know how to explain it. So I'm thankful that I can be a bright light for people. But it comes with its own baggage. People put you on a pedestal, people expect certain things from you. And at the end of the day... So for my organization, I wanted to just be one of them. I'm no longer just one of them and not because I don't want to be, it's because of where they view me and where they put me, which is hard sometimes because I just want to be one of my fellow cervivors and we spell it C-E-R-V-I-V-O-R.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Because you're focusing on cervical cancer.

Tamika Felder: Yes. And I mean, I do work in cancer in general, but my organization is for cervical cancer. And a lot of times I feel like, well I'm, because I'm not one of you. And sometimes I feel like maybe it's my own thing. But as it evolves, I've definitely grown into that leadership role. But sometimes I just want to be one of the people in the community.

Tamika Felder: When I had a scare three, four years ago, I had a scare and I also felt like, well, nobody cares about me. I can't share it in the same way. And so that's when that creative side of me comes out. So I wrote a blog post. That was my way of just getting it out because I feel it in such a way. But yeah, I did it, I literally didn't want to be the only one, I didn't want to be alone.

And so that's why if you look at our organization, you always see you're not alone. It's from my own experience of feeling so alone in this diagnosis of cervical cancer, feeling so alone as someone who is 25 and having to go through a radical hysterectomy. Feeling so alone as someone who needed to save their lives, should have preserved fertility, but couldn't come up with the insane amount of money to do it.

I built what I needed. I built what I wish I had. And I am so happy that people are benefiting from that. But yes, it's a very weird thing that it came from my own trauma. But we all have a story, we all have a purpose here in life. This is not what I thought my purpose was going to be. And I remember when I was struggling back in 2014 and I hated my boss, I hated my boss.

Tamika Felder: You look up horrible boss, think about that movie, my boss's pictures that should be there, like just a douche bag. And he made it hard for me. But what I realized was I had outgrown him, I had outgrown the station, I had outgrown the people. I wanted to continue to tell stories, but the stories that we were telling, political stories, governmental stories, those weren't the stories that I wanted to share any longer. And so my heart wasn't really in it. I was getting a check, but my heart wasn't in it. And when you survive cancer, it's like, do you want to spend so much time at a place? I mean more time than you spend at home and you're miserable? And so I started literally creating the life that I wanted and realizing that I don't have to retire from this job or I don't have to do this. And every time I'm not happy I can pivot. I can pivot.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I love that so much. Yeah.

Tamika Felder: Cancer allowed me to feel okay doing it.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I think that connects to what you're talking about cancer helping you understand the meaning of life. And I hate when people talk about the blessings of cancer and this or whatever. But my tolerance for nonsense is... I have a very, very low tolerance for nonsense [laughter].

Tamika Felder: I do too. It takes everything in me not to curse people out, but I also believed in if it is warranted curse them all the way out.

Jodi-Ann Burey: All the way out [laughter]. When it comes to my mental health, my emotional health, my physical health, it is non negotiable.

Tamika Felder: Yes. And it took me a long time to get there. People are like, "You've always been like that," but it's different. I feel different about this.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yes. And people say that about me like, "Oh, you've always been brave. You've always been courageous. You've always been like no bullshit." And I'm like, "There was a shell of that." And I think what cancer does is... I've been talking about it as an edited life. There are parts of your life, especially these expectations like being so young that have to go, because when you're facing a cancer diagnosis and you have to make life and death decisions are really serious decisions at a young age, you can only take some pieces out. And so when you survive that, how do you bring back in the bullshit? So you have this edited version of yours.

Tamika Felder: You can't.

Jodi-Ann Burey: You can't! So you have this edited version of yourself. Well, when then the pieces that you do have left you double down on it. And so if I was no bullshit before, I mean it now.

Tamika Felder: Right. I understand that so freaking much. Yeah. I mean, you can't allow it, because I literally can picture myself. Sometimes I just like, "Wait a minute, do you know I survive cancer, how dare you speak to me? How dare you disrupt my peace? Do you know what I went through to be in this world?" I'm about that life. And when I say that it's not the typical I'm about that life, I'll beat you. No, I'm bout that life. I'm about living my life and living life the way that I want to live it. And if you don't like it...

Jodi-Ann Burey: I can't create space for that.

Tamika Felder: No.

Jodi-Ann Burey: [sigh] Ugh. I need it this day because of the past couple days, I'm trying to weigh a lot of different decisions of like, where do I want to live? And navigating crazy literary agents then. And all the things-

Tamika Felder: Isn't it at a different level?

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yes! [laughter] And I'm like, trying to figure out-

Tamika Felder: Because it matters.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Tamika Felder: And you're like, the time that I have here, and look, so our time, we're going to live long lives, potentially. If we die, it probably won't be because of cancer. But the decisions that we make for our lives matter. So yeah. Some stuff we can be like sadistical about, but there's somethings it matters.

Jodi-Ann Burey: It matters. And I think my confidence-

Tamika Felder: You don't waste time.

Jodi-Ann Burey: You don't waste time. And I think my confidence in making my decisions is much stronger because I always go back to, you have already made the hardest decisions with very little resources. And so now years later it's quicker for me to like, yes, no, yes, no. And then for things that do take a little bit more time, I feel more equipped on how to make those decisions because I think I'm more about self-preservation, and self-determination, and self-actualization more than I was before.

Jodi-Ann Burey: It's not self-centered, it's self centering. And when I think about, well, what do you want Jodi-Ann? What matters to you? Because what matters to you is the only thing that matters. And I think in the work that we do in sharing our stories and how we're uplifting people who have navigated things similar to us, I strongly believe that when we dig down in ourselves, especially as women of color, that what we do for ourselves is generative for other people. And so I don't feel bad about, well, what do you want? Because a lot of times what I want can also be helpful for other people. And it's just like...[sigh] I can't even describe it. But I don't even know if people haven't gone through if they don't understand, but it's like, you have to support yourself more than anything. The self is so important. Your health is so important, your mental state is so important, your happiness is so important. And it is at a level that feels non-negotiable now.

Tamika Felder: Absolutely. And that's why I quit my job [laughter]. I wasn't at peace, it was making my home life toxic, I couldn't leave it at the door, right?

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Tamika Felder: And I survived cancer.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Can do anything.

Tamika Felder: Exactly.

Jodi-Ann Burey: That type of power, it could be scary for some people.

Tamika Felder: Yes.

Jodi-Ann Burey: To see Tamika is doing her thing and it's not... People, I mean, I'm experiencing this right now. My Ted Talk hit a million today and this, and I'm like, oh yeah...

Tamika Felder: [clapping] Congratulations!

Jodi-Ann Burey: Thank you boo! Yes! Let these people know. And so when you had these successes in your life, people are like, "Oh, look at Jodi-Ann, look at Tamika, they're doing their thing." And I'm like, "This is a trauma response" [laughter].

Tamika Felder: But your growth scares them.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Your growth scares people.

Tamika Felder: Your growth scares them, especially when they thought you would be stunted by this traumatic thing, that's happened to you. But yet you've been able to flower and bloom despite it all.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Tamika Felder: Yeah. Especially if you always been a go-getter. So I was always kind of a go-getter in that way, and then, the haters, they're just like, "Okay, well finally something's not perfect." And I was thinking as no one said that to me, but it's what I assumed from different things in life. But we have this innate thing in us to survive and succeed and yeah, life isn't going to, it's not where I thought I was going to be, but it's not terribly bad either.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Tamika Felder: And I mean, it's actually good. But if I look at my journals, and I still have my journal from when I was a little youngster, sitting in my room in South Carolina with my Pegasus unicorn, on the cover. And I from time to time pull it out, and I remember my stepdaughter would laugh. She was like, "Why do you still have this?" I said, because at the heart of who I am, I'm always a dreamer. And I'm always got a dream in my heart. And cancer never stopped that, it paused it momentarily, but now it's just reminded me that it's important to still dream. So I still say my wishes and my dreams, and I write them down, and I put them out. Don't let there be a full moon, I'm going to go outside, and I can go yell it to the moon [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: So what are you dreaming of now?

Tamika Felder: So for me, I am dreaming of Ted Talks, documentaries, books, but I also have not closed the door on birthing something, I birthed my organization, I birth many things and, but I still see this human. And I don't know what that'll look like for me. And I've realized that I left a door cracked open. So I want to be open to receive all the gifts that come my way.

A lot of times we get lost in the traumatic experience and we don't look at the evolution. We also get so wrapped into what other people think or... I remember when I was in my 20s, I wanted to be on 20 by 20 list, there was the 30 by 30 lists and [crosstalk 01:19:51]. And as I get older, I'm missing all the lists. But I don't think about the list that I am on or the achievements, accolades that I've received. But we think about growing up, I remember this person got this, this, this, I want to be a part of this. And sometimes we just have to sit back and [clapping] clap for the things that we have achieved, pat ourselves on the back.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Tamika Felder: And my life has been awesome. I still don't want it to end yet, but I'm like, if it were to end, I've had a good life. Ain't over. As far as [crosstalk 01:20:30]

Jodi-Ann Burey: Don't misunderstand me.

Tamika Felder: Exactly.

Jodi-Ann Burey: It's not over [laughter].

Tamika Felder: It's not over.

Jodi-Ann Burey: But it's been good.

Tamika Felder: But it's been good and it's been good because I've made it so. It doesn't mean that it's been without hardships, hurdles, bumps, forks in the road, but it has been good because I have decidedly said that it will be good. And when I feel myself in toxic environments, when I feel myself being pulled into things that I really don't want to do, I remove myself. And I want people to really hear me when I say this, when you remove yourself from things, it doesn't have to be some grand dramatic removal. Sometimes you can just fade to black. I actually prefer that now [laughter]. And I tell people, "Ooh, when faded black that's when you should be scared." It's like, when I tell my husband, if we're arguing and then I just stop, ooh son, you should be scared [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. I saw this meme the other day that it's like when black people say, "Oh no, it's all right, I'm fine." You know it's not fine.

Tamika Felder: Or if you say, "Okay, then" [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: Okay, then. Yeah. All right. That's cool. That's for me, if I'm like, "All right, that's cool." That's me fade into black.

Tamika Felder: Or when I say, "It doesn't even matter. We're good."

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. It doesn't matter, is good.

Tamika Felder: Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey: That's, I'm fading to black. And it's like, I'm choosing myself in this right now. And those free radicals that stress does to your body, I have to walk away from that because again, non-negotiable.

Tamika Felder: Stress brings on cancer cells. Even [inaudible 01:22:30] no, so don't stress my life [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yes. Your toxic workplaces where you just trying to get whatever you're trying to get.

Tamika Felder: And I start with friends. And one of my rules in the book is you have to cut back or cut off people. And that includes family. So maybe you have family that you can't completely cut off, you can cut them back or cut them way back. I think a lot of people get caught up in this. "Well, this is just my sister and this is how she is." No! Screw that.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah. And again, it's not you being an asshole or it's not anything about them. It's just you really end with clear eyes, reading your life and making decisions for your own survival and preservation.

Tamika Felder: There are just some people too that your spirit doesn't mesh well with. So I definitely know that my spirit does not match well, I'm a people-person, but that doesn't mean all people belong in my presence. I remember, I met this cancer survivor and she really, for whatever reason felt this certain way about me, she was like, "Well, I reached out to you for this and then this didn't happen." And I'm like, "You could look at my," I'm the first one to say, "If you email me or messaging me and I get a lot," not bragging, it's just the truth. Sometimes I just, I can't think about cancer 24/7, I need cancer breaks, right?

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Tamika Felder: And especially because now I'm at an advocate and working more in the space, but she was really in her feelings and I understood it, but she was done with me. And I was like, okay. And when I was done with her, she felt some type of way. And I'm like, "Well, which one do you want?" And I was just like, I don't have the capa- My new thing is I don't have the capacity. That's my new thing. I'm like, "I don't have the capacity. So you're going to have to tell me what you want."

Jodi-Ann Burey: I love- [sigh] I'm going to copy paste that. I think that's the thing that I type to people the most often.

Tamika Felder: Somebody said it to me, and I was like, ooh, I'm taking that.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I'm going to take that. Here's one that I've been using, I'm currently not available for blah, blah [laughter].

Tamika Felder: I like it. Yeah.

Jodi-Ann Burey: I'm currently not available for that.

Tamika Felder: Yeah. So my capacity for toxic bullshit [laughter].

Jodi-Ann Burey: Um I'm currently not available for toxic bullshit. Well, you can try me in a couple of months [laughter].

Tamika Felder: Yeah. I mean...

Jodi-Ann Burey: Well, I think what I want wrap here with too, and then what I hear in your story, and I think what I also needed to hear today is this feeling better has to be actively worked on, and it's an act of decision constantly. And I think, yes, there is a point where you maybe tip over to a different phase of survivorship, but that doesn't mean that a lot of this is on autopilot.

Tamika Felder: Well, that's why in my book, I literally was like, are these tips? Are these tips? And I'm like, these are actions. And they're all common sense actions. Every single tip is something that you know but you have to take action on it.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Tamika Felder: So you have to remove toxic people, you have to be aware of energy vampires, you have to be your own cheerleader, surround yourself with cheerleaders, not fear-leaders. You would have to keep swimming. Even if you don't know how to swim.

Jodi-Ann Burey: Yeah.

Tamika Felder: You got to float until you can swim, do something so that you can keep moving forward. But my parents have passed and so I don't have... I have people in my life, but not those parentals to guide me in that way. So these are things that I was taught, but through life, sometimes you forget and you're right, and I'm glad that that came out in what I was sharing, because I would want people to take those actions or come up with their own actions so that they can just keep going. A lot of times, again, you just need a push or my parents would say a little swift kick in the booty, as a reminder to keep going, because life is hard, it's not easy. It's filled with peaks, and valleys, and volcanoes, and earthquakes, and devastation. And it's true, it's how you react to them, but sometimes you're going to fall to your knees. But what if you could just get up and keep moving?

Jodi-Ann Burey: I love it. Thank you so much for sharing-

Tamika Felder: You're welcome!

Jodi-Ann Burey: .... and connecting with me. I needed this today. Yeah.

Tamika Felder: Me too. Yeah.

[music]

Jodi-Ann Burey: Black Cancer is created, edited and produced by me, Jodi-Ann Burey. Thank you so much Tamika for sharing your story with us. To make sure that other Black Cancer Stories become center to how we talk about cancer, like, subscribe, just take a few minutes to leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Check out our website at blackcancer.co, and on Instagram @_black_cancer. Trauma comes with endless wisdom for ourselves and those around us. Tell someone you know about Black Cancer.

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